April 19, 2005 at 4:11 pm
I was reading Sean McCown's blog over at InfoWorld and it got me thinking. I wrote one side of a debate awhile back with Andy on certification and if it was worth it. I was kind if in the middle in that I think certification should be required, but that the current process is broken and needs to be fixed.
The big problem has always been with many certifications is that the testing does not measure real world skills. Perhaps this is an outgrowth of our school systems, which teach concepts and teach you to learn, but don't really teach you practical skills. The CCIE might be the exception to this, but most of the base certifications, CNE, MCSE, CCNP, etc. are more a measure of your devotion to getting the credential than any skills involved.
I like the idea of Microsoft adding more certifications, in fact it's one of the things that I thought should have been done a long time ago. We should have had tiers or steps, similar to how Novell setup their CNA/CNE/MCNE program to allow people to grow. We need some new certifications that differentiate people's skills and devotion to their craft.
In the DBA world, we need to be able to "grade" our DBAs as to their skills as developers, as administrators, as multi-server administrators, as DTS/SSIS experts, etc. Having a variety of different types of certifications would help us to set some basic expectations for someone with a certification. As it is now, a MCDBA could dodge a replication question of any depth by saying that isn't their area of SQL Server. Something an employer doesn't want to hear, but it's a legitimate excuse.
Instead we should do better than college, better than schools, and actually model the certifications more like other craftsman. Something like a master electrician, where you know they have had certain experience and skills. Where we test particular skills and award a certification only in those areas in which the person has demonstrated skills.
There are any number of ways to reform the certification process at Microsoft and it's something that I think we should be working towards to make the process more meaningful for employers and employees. And more profitable.
Now if only Microsoft would offer me that job 🙂
Steve Jones
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April 19, 2005 at 5:29 pm
OK, I had a big long rant/reply I wrote in reply that got lost by the silly applet which is this forum.
I'll sum it up by saying that this forum software was probably written by someone with a cert, and...
There is no correlation between competence and certification or number of certifications.
The more certs available, the less quality/competence/knowledge there will be in that industry. i.e. there is an inverse correlation between certifications available to an industry and the quality/competence in that industry.
Certifications are evil. (Hiss -- make sign of cross with fingers)
But you know what? I have no certs., and the more certs there are out there the more $ I make cleaning up after the messes they create. Despite my monetary advantage, I would much rather people stopped relying on a piece of paper or fancy hologram to tell themselves or others that they know something. I'd rather they actually did know, or even better the guy that knows he doesn't know and wants to learn.
April 20, 2005 at 1:34 am
Now this is almost a FAQ here and in all other communities.
I like the idea of narrowing down the certification to specific areas, but then again, how will you measure experience? As long as this is a multiple choice approach, you only need to learn it the way it is expected and with more or less luck, you're done.
I also *really* like the approach Oracle is using when testing for OCM. There you need to demonstrate your skills live in an Oracle environment. No multiple choice or something like that. If I understand this correct, just you, some problems to solve and the machine. Now fix it. No excuse possible here.
--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
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April 20, 2005 at 3:48 am
Even practical exams can be not so good:
When I got my single engine pilot's license the guy testing me got all over my case about coming in too high when doing a simulated engine out landing. But I was not too high: I was originally a glider pilot and learned correctly that altitude/potential energy is always your friend when you have no engine (you can always bleed off airspeed with a skid/slip).
My point is it kind of scares me for those people that were taught or tested by that examiner and take his method and later they get into trouble: one little downdraft can ruin the rest of your day.
April 20, 2005 at 11:43 am
One aspect of the problem with certifications is the perception of these certs by CFO's and others that do the hiring of IT people. I personally beleive that the A+ cert is a joke to anyone who has been in the business a while but I see it as a requirement for several IT related job postings.
Many people have an idea of what a cert "should" be, but equally as important is what it is perceived as and appropriately shaping the perception. Several professions have certifications and the same trouble applies to all of them (realtors have CRS, GRI,ABR; Firefighter have firefighter I, FFII, DPO, etc.). Having the cert does not necessarily mean having the skill and definitely does not mean having the experience.
A cert is the easiest way to establish an objective measurement of a person's knowledge. Everything beyond that is what resumes are for. If you hire someone to run your IT dept. because s/he has an MCSE and the only IT experience on their resume is helping uncle Charlie rid his PC of viruses, you get exactly what you deserve. On the other end, Upon reviewing a resume of an IT person with 10 plus years of experience, I am going to wonder why s/he has no certs.
My bottom line - Certs are good but only a piece of the puzzle in measuring proficiency. They are best used for resume candy and meeting agency requirements. You should frame them and hang them on your wall to cover the holes left by removing the CAT5 cable you had all over your house when you bought a wireless hub.
Sean Wyatt
seanwyatt.com
April 20, 2005 at 11:46 am
Also - More specific Certs like Cisco has are great for identifying specialties but it will also create a perceived need to have multiple certs. Plus the people doing the hiring must know what each cert means and how it applies to the position they are looking to fill.
Sean Wyatt
seanwyatt.com
April 28, 2005 at 1:17 pm
All interesting comments. My take is a little different. MS SQL and associated components like MSAS and DTS/MSIS are complex tools. Frequently there is no best way or standard practice for accomplishing a particular task and DBAs and developers come up with extremely creative solutions sometimes.
I doubt that any certification testing can come close to handling the complexity or the flexibility inherent in the usage of these tools in real environments. A certain lowest common experience approach seems to me to be inevitable for certification testing.
But this issue doesn't concern me. I think DBA SQL certifications are great for consultants or anyone else who wants to use them as marketing tools. It can get them in more doors.
I don't think it helps hiring organizations much however. I would never hire someone without my own carefully constructed technical screening interview. And I would be looking for hands-on experience.
As a senior DBA, I don't mind if a company tells me that they can't hire me because I'm not certified. To me that is a powerful indication that they don't have a handle on how to manage technical skills. I wouldn't fit there and so can focus my efforts on other potential employers.
April 28, 2005 at 1:40 pm
"As a senior DBA, I don't mind if a company tells me that they can't hire me because I'm not certified. To me that is a powerful indication that they don't have a handle on how to manage technical skills. I wouldn't fit there and so can focus my efforts on other potential employers"
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Somebody give that man a cigar.
It's a life lesson I learned a very long time ago, and I have found it to be invariably correct. (i.e. those places are idiots, screwed up, etc. Run--don't walk-- away...)
Another clue about a place that an applicant can look for: If during the interview the manager pulls out an org chart to show you where he is (or you will be), run for your life...
(I've got a hundreds of these tidbits floating in RAM just out of reach...)
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