December 16, 2019 at 7:17 am
Hi,
I have a small business which uses Zoho recruit- its a kind of CRM / database for recruitment industry. We are trying to build some extra functionality to our site but its really slow using Zoho's database so we are looking to migrate everything we have over to our own database and then build out from there.
I was expecting this to be a rather straightforward job and I have been in discussion with a guy who with a great resume. He tocked all the right boxes, but when it came to time for the job he said it could take him and 2 /3 developers a few MONTHS. I wasnt expecting anything near this- somebody else has suggested it should be much quicker and a one man job once all the data is in a .csv
Id be really greatful for any advice from you guys
December 16, 2019 at 10:32 am
You haven't provided the sufficient information so that anybody can help you.
December 16, 2019 at 2:06 pm
You're looking a fully customized CRM solution built from scratch? Yeah, a few months, at least, to deliver that. However, weeks to start releasing code to you if they're doing an agile methodology (and you should insist on it). It doesn't sound like they're telling you anything bad based on what you've said here. Development ain't easy, quick, or cheap. That's why so many people when faced with buy vs. build, opt for buy. Maybe look to see if there are other CRM services that could meet your needs better and then transfer to them rather than build your own system.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
December 16, 2019 at 4:02 pm
Is the scope of this work as follows?
If so, that's a huge task and the estimates don't seem unreasonable.
If you haven't even tried to resolve your issue, please don't expect the hard-working volunteers here to waste their time providing links to answers which you could easily have found yourself.
December 16, 2019 at 4:10 pm
Is the scope of this work as follows?
<li style="list-style-type: none;">
- Build a SQL Server database which matches your existing database
- Migrate existing data to new database
- Replicate existing Zoho CRM application functionality
- Build additional functionality
<li style="list-style-type: none;">
If so, that's a huge task and the estimates don't seem unreasonable.
Development tasks are renowned for taking longer than estimated. For a project like this, with several developers, you need a plan and some contingency.
December 17, 2019 at 6:48 am
Thanks for the responses guys. I was kind of hoping you were going to tell me this is nonsense and to get another developer but it sounds like its all above board and we are looking at a lot more time and money than we'd had in mind.
Waiting months for the new set up to be ready is not an option for us as we open for business again at the end of July so I guess we will have to look at alternative options in the meantime while we get the database job started. Our main issue with the CRM we are using is that its so slow- we have a very basic client portal so they log in and give us updates on each candidate we send them- but each action takes a long time and there are often errors and sometimes it just doesnt work at all- we thought with our own database set up it would be pretty straight forward to build existing and extra functionality on the new database.
We've worked with a few developers over the last 2 years and we've had mostly bad experiences and been BS'd and ripped off more than once so we are proceeding with caution. One of the big issues with our project is that I havent done anything like this before apart from build basic sites, so Im totally reliant on other peoples advice.
Thanks again for the replies
December 17, 2019 at 12:01 pm
You are in a tough spot. Most organizations, like you, don't have adequate IT experience and knowledge to manage development well, assuming you get a good contractor who isn't out to rip you off. As much as these things seem like toasters when you're just using your phone to access apps, development of databases and data management systems is still very much in its infancy as an engineering practice. Some people are good at it. Others just are not.
Again, biggest thing you can do is talk to the team you're working with about agile principals. They should be releasing some functionality to you every 2-3 weeks. It won't be complete, it may not even move into the realm of working for the business during that 2-3 week sprint. However, you should be seeing constant, repeatable, clear, progress. This should also serve as a feedback loop. Communication here is tough. You're going to get a lot of "I know I said X, but what I really want is Y", so plan for that. You don't want to get into a rut of constantly reworking one 2-3 week sprint until it's perfect or you'll be looking at a multi-year project (and oh boy, most contractors would love that). However, some changes and adjustments will be needed.
Good luck. I'd still lean towards looking to buy some other CRM tool versus build your own. There are a lot out there (not an expert on CRM tools, so I don't have one to recommend). Good luck!
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
December 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm
I'd still lean towards looking to buy some other CRM tool versus build your own.
Based on what you've (the OP) posted so far, I'd agree with this. I used to work in the CRM world and there is a lot of functionality built in to those systems which you may find useful down the line, if not now. Recreating this functionality from scratch will be expensive and time-consuming.
If you haven't even tried to resolve your issue, please don't expect the hard-working volunteers here to waste their time providing links to answers which you could easily have found yourself.
December 17, 2019 at 12:23 pm
There are CRM services that you only pay for how much you use and are accessed via a web-services, so there is nothing to install or write and you can change provider with just a few changes to the web-service calls. It would definitely be worth investigating some of these before writing your own CRM system.
December 17, 2019 at 2:51 pm
Odd question, have you contacted the CRM-provider about the slowness?
December 17, 2019 at 3:14 pm
Odd question, have you contacted the CRM-provider about the slowness?
+1 Million for that suggestion.
Also, do you have a proc that properly maintains statistics and (to a lesser extent) fragmented indexes and proper page density? Most 3rd party providers don't add such things into their products.
--Jeff Moden
December 17, 2019 at 4:16 pm
Is Zoho slow or is your site slow or are both slow? One way to gain some traction over the situation could be to recreate the data flow without the UI. You could (hire a constractor to) set up the auth flow and rpc's using an API Client tool like Postman. So I Googled "Zoho CRM" and they have a REST API as well as native SDKs. Using native SDK's does complicate the situation tho. I wouldn't use an SDK from Zoho because it's nearly 100% certain it was created using Swagger codegen which is just a wrapper for the REST methods. Anyway, find out how your site communicates with Zoho.
Basically if you're going to manage web IT resources without coder skills then imo it makes sense to understand 3 things:
Where I work when we have to integrate the backend with an external system we hire someone on Upwork (IT contractor site) to translate the API into a Postman collection we can use for QA. We just did this with a SOAP API. I refuse to learn SOAP. The Postman collection allows you to login (i.e. get a token), to submit authenticated requests, and to measure API performance in the absence of the UI. Then provide your web developers (or App developers too) with your Postman collection and they'll have ZERO EXCUSES for not cranking out results. Either they produce functional UI or they get let go in a few days for $0.00.
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können
December 17, 2019 at 5:49 pm
Thanks for the advice, Ill look into that.
We have a caching issue with our site which can make it extremely slow at times, but I think the main issue is Zoho- I think its Zoho because even when navigating from page to page within their CRM it does seem slow.
December 17, 2019 at 5:50 pm
Yes, but their support is quite poor. They are super cheap and you get a whole host of business software with their Zoho One package so we've been happy to make do for now.
December 17, 2019 at 6:57 pm
Thanks for the advice, Ill look into that.
We have a caching issue with our site which can make it extremely slow at times, but I think the main issue is Zoho- I think its Zoho because even when navigating from page to page within their CRM it does seem slow.
It might help to understand what is slow if you could do the following steps:
What are the top 5 item in the list?
Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können
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