Do you think education matters?
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Recently, in one of the threads, a DBA voiced his views about whether education mattered. He stated that he did not have any education beyond high school but he felt he was just as qualified as the next guy to be a DBA. Well, here's my two cents, "Yes, it matters, and no, it doesn't". Bear in mind that I have a MS:MIS and am also an MCSE so I will admit that I have a strong belief in furthering one's education.
I have hired numerous technical employees so here's how I go about determining education levels. It really depends on how BROAD the experience requirements are. The keyword is BROAD. You can't get BROAD without education because no job can ever provide one with enough avenues to BROADEN ones' knowledge beyond the scope of the job. Without education, a hiring manager cannot see on your resume' where you can fill a job with BROAD requirements. The only data the hiring manager would be able to see on your resume' would be job skills (which is limited in scope). So when do I hire someone without formal education? When I know that the person's scope will never require a BROAD range of skills beyond the specific job (i.e., PC technician, etc.) However, I believe that DBAs and programmers should have some formal education because the diversity of modern day computing is so volatile and BROAD. I need to see that reflected on a resume' somehow, whether the education is truly formal or some form of training can be documented.
What's your thoughts on the subject?
Edited by - dalec on 06/23/2003 11:37:11 AM
All the best,
DaleAuthor: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio
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IMHO, I'd rather hire someone who has more real-life experience and understanding of business than someone who has a ton of book smarts, but has not encountered anything in reality and is unprepared for situations that arise on a daily basis in the workplace. That said, I do believe different people learn differently, and some learn better in highly controlled, scholastic environments. Others learn through working, doing, and making mistakes on the job. Regardless of how you learn, I think the important thing is that you continue to do so throughout your career, and never get complacent about knowledge...
my two pennies.
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Hi Dale,
quote:
Recently, in one of the threads, a DBA voiced his views about whether education mattered. He stated that he did not have any education beyond high school but he felt he was just as qualified as the next guy to be a DBA. Well, here's my two cents, "Yes, it matters, and no, it doesn't". Bear in mind that I have a MS:MIS and am also an MCSE so I will admit that I have a strong belief in furthering one's education.
I agree with you, It matters and at the same moment it doesn't.
I believe formal education like university degrees helps you to develop a certain way of thinking and solving problems. At a minimum it shows one's ability to learn it the way the university wants it to be.
I believe a formal education will help you open certain doors and certain career steps. At least apart from the IT world.
I do not believe formal education will give you advantages or superior knowledge per se. This strongly depends on one's own personality. As Jay said, what is a magna cum laude worth if it can't be applied in the real world?
quote:
I need to see that reflected on a resume' somehow, whether the education is truly formal or some form of training can be documented.
I have a strong believe that one need to adhere to continous education.
The days when you finished school, start a job and stay with the same company until you retire are definitely gone, if they were ever there. So, apart from being interesting and fun, continous education is kind of survival training keeping you ahead of the pack.
BTW, may I contact you offline for a different question?
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Yeah, sure thing, Frank. However, I don't know anymore good acronyms if that's what you're interested in. Ha! Ha! Just kidding!
All the best,
DaleAuthor: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio
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quote:
You can't get BROAD without education because no job can ever provide one with enough avenues to BROADEN ones' knowledge beyond the scope of the job.
In some cases this is true but it also depends on the individual. I and others I know are constantly looking at different things. Just because of curiosity. The other thread "What makes a good programmer" touched on that. We have people working here that have all the diploma's etc yet no "street smarts". They actually not very good at what they do. If a problem differs from text-book, they stumped. No ability to work things out.
This may (will) be a small percentage of people but we seem to get them all. 🙁
Personaly, street smarts is what I look for. Or the possability thereof.
Cheers,
Crispin
Cheers,CrispinI can't die, there are too many people who still have to meet me!It's not a bug, SQL just misunderstood me!
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quote:
No ability to work things out.
how often have you heard 'but the book says...'*I didn't do anything it just got complicated*
"I didn't do anything it just got complicated" - M Edwards -
quote:
No ability to work things out. how often have you heard 'but the book says...'*I didn't do anything it just got complicated*
what I hear more often is 'in theory' or 'theoretical spoken'...
This normally the point in a discussion where you wish yourself anywhere else
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
quote:
If a problem differs from text-book, they stumped. No ability to work things out.
Unfortunately, that can be a very true statement at times.
All the best,
DaleAuthor: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio
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Being by the book is not a bad thing if it is more than by rote.
I knew a MCSE who could not change the display settings. I watched him for 30 minutes. He was confused that it installed at 640 x 480. He ran through the install twice and was about to run through it again when I stopped him and asked him what he was attempting to do.
The world is full of scary people.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Thinking outside the box, having a "feeling" for the server, seeing the forest for the trees. These are tough things and I'm not sure how much you can learn about them.
That being said, I'd rather hire someone I like, that fits my team. Can't teach that. As far as education, college teaches you how to learn. Of course, I work with a number of smart people that don't have college degrees. I'm not sure how much I care about it.
Steve Jones
http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com -
quote:
I'd rather hire someone I like, that fits my team. Can't teach that.
To this I agree.
However, to this, I have a question.:
quote:
I work with a number of smart people that don't have college degrees.
How do you measure the employee's/fellow worker's thirst for knowledge and continuous improvement? I find that very hard to quantify sometimes, and other times, I find that there can be gaps in knowledge.
All the best,
DaleAuthor: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio
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Talking with them. People who refuse to let a problem go, or enjoy discussions that delve into the code are important.
One of my best programmers does not have a college degree, but he learned C/C++ through UNIX and is a master of using the debugger and following code.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Generally you don't see that kind of behavior in a major appliance.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hi Dale,
quote:
How do you measure the employee's/fellow worker's thirst for knowledge and continuous improvement? I find that very hard to quantify sometimes, and other times, I find that there can be gaps in knowledge.
as Patrick said, talk to them. Simple as that, is it also the biggest hurdle. In most cases the first contact for a new job is a written application?!?
So, how can you tell from this who is better qualified. The one with a diploma or the one without. Unless you don't feel some kind of same vibration as Steve mentioned, I'll bet you invite the one with the diploma for an interview (maybe along with the other one, but the former first). This is especially true when it is your first job. I think this can quite often be an injustice. From a piece of paper you can't conclude on one's real qualification for the job in question.
But it is a totally different thing when you are already working in the job and looking for something new. In my job area?!? everything is done via head hunters. So when you get contacted, the headhunters already knows what you are doing. That makes it much easier talking to a potential new employer. I've made the experience that is this cases formal education is only worth one question, if at all.
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
You can't measure it. In fact, you can't measure many things. Your decision to hire, or the decision to hire you has a lot of emotion involved. I mean A LOT!!!
If you think that when 5 candidates are hired there is a MOST QUALIFIED individual, I'd dispute that. There might be a best fit, but a large part of that is a guess on the part of the hiring person. For most jobs, from President, to CEO to athletic coach, there is rarely a "most qualified". We are all different and bring different things to the table. Someone hires you or you hire someone based on some set of criteria, but when you compare Person A to Person B, there is a tremendous amount of subjectivity applied.
Steve Jones
http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com -
Agreed. Person A might be technically very gifted but if person B will work better in your team, who you gonna hire?
*I didn't do anything it just got complicated*
"I didn't do anything it just got complicated" - M Edwards
how often have you heard 'but the book says...'
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