June 21, 2010 at 8:27 am
Jan Van der Eecken (6/21/2010)
Did anyone watch Portugal - North Korea just now? Wow, what a result, 7:0. Now you US'ers stop complaining about low-scoring games.
It's a shame I couldn't visit Portugal before North Korea nuke it down. 😛
-- Gianluca Sartori
June 21, 2010 at 8:30 am
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Remember, the referees have to call what they see.
Totally agree. It this doesn't change the horrible match Italy played yesterday.
BTW, AR stands for Assistant Referee?
-- Gianluca Sartori
June 21, 2010 at 8:32 am
D.Oc (6/21/2010)
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Anyone watch the Brazil v Ivory Coast game yesterday? One of Brazil's goals should have been disallowed, handling - player played it off his arm. At full speed it was hard to see, and if not in the right position, difficult to call. Slow motion replay, the handling was obvious.And what about that second yellow near the end on Kaka? What a royal crock, the Ivory Coast player should have been shown the yellow for faking AND given an Oscar for his performance!
And this is why everyone want cameras on the field to help refs, like NFL and hockey do have, to avoid these great injustices to happen again.
And I will argue against it. Soccer is a players game. It is meant to be played with as little interference from officials, coaches, and spectators. You bring in cameras and instant replays and next you'll want the officials to start announcing what the fouls and cards are for to the spectators, slowing the game even more. What's next, time outs, coaches challenges, name your poison?
Referees make mistakes, if it is egregious like the disallowing of the USA goal, sanction/discipline the referee, perhaps allow the goal to be awarded to the the team, but don't change the nature of the game.
June 21, 2010 at 8:36 am
Gianluca Sartori (6/21/2010)
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Remember, the referees have to call what they see.Totally agree. It this doesn't change the horrible match Italy played yesterday.
BTW, AR stands for Assistant Referee?
Yes. I've been told we don't call them linesman anymore. Their job is to assist the referee in managing the game and making the right calls. AR's don't make calls, the Referee does with the assistance of the AR especially in areas of offsides, or things that happen out of view of the referee (behind him or where his vision may be blocked).
June 21, 2010 at 8:40 am
Slovania vs USA game, the calls were pretty bad. Slovania hit a goal that was clearly Offside, and then when US hit a goal, it was called offside when it was not. Actual score should have been 3-1 in favor of US and not the 2-2 tie.
-Roy
June 21, 2010 at 8:45 am
Roy Ernest (6/21/2010)
Slovania vs USA game, the calls were pretty bad. Slovania hit a goal that was clearly Offside, and then when US hit a goal, it was called offside when it was not. Actual score should have been 3-1 in favor of US and not the 2-2 tie.
Not sure about the offside on the Slovania goal. From what I saw it looked well timed. Making the offside call is not that easy, especially when the players are making runs on through passes. Been there, done that.
June 21, 2010 at 8:48 am
Mistakes do happen. As long as the ref is not blatently biased towards one team, and he is consistent in his approach, I see very little reason to allow TV replays to be used to overrule him.
Oh, by the way, top-class cricket uses a third umpire as well. In that case I do understand the motivation, seeing how fast these balls come at the batsman.
June 21, 2010 at 9:03 am
We use a Double Dual or three whistle system in our high school games. At first, I didn't know if I was going to like it, but having been doing it for a couple of years now, I actually like it. AR's are now SR's (Side Referee's) and we have a whistle instead of a flag. We have the same powers and authority as the Center Referee. Being on the field, being able to get closer to play puts more eyes on play in a critical situations. As an SR we are still responsibile for the offside call first, fouls seconds in those cases, but it works well IMHO.
June 21, 2010 at 9:16 am
All referees will make mistakes. We see it here locally in our baseball games, see it in games on TV. I'd agree that without blatant bias, we let it go.
However, I do think that a lot of the arguments Lynn brought up were brought up with NFL replays, and that has worked OK. I think that allowing a review of critical goals, or given a single coach's challenge per game, would not ruin the game. There are definitely cases where the players try to take advantage of the "few eyes" of officials and influence them. That, IMHO, violates the spirit of the game as well. A review might stop some of that. Might not. Hard to say.
I just don't like the lack of a clock in soccer. That, to me, is a fundamental failing of the game.
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June 21, 2010 at 9:39 am
Steve Jones - Editor (6/21/2010)
All referees will make mistakes. We see it here locally in our baseball games, see it in games on TV. I'd agree that without blatant bias, we let it go.However, I do think that a lot of the arguments Lynn brought up were brought up with NFL replays, and that has worked OK. I think that allowing a review of critical goals, or given a single coach's challenge per game, would not ruin the game. There are definitely cases where the players try to take advantage of the "few eyes" of officials and influence them. That, IMHO, violates the spirit of the game as well. A review might stop some of that. Might not. Hard to say.
I just don't like the lack of a clock in soccer. That, to me, is a fundamental failing of the game.
Clock? We have a clock, it is on our wrist. In fact, take a close look at the center referee when you watch a World Cup game, you may notice that the center is actually wearing two watches. The official time keeper is the Center Referee. The AR's are usually tasked with backing up the Center Referee, but his clock is the official clock. Except when you go to a high school game played in a stadium, then the stadium clock is the official time. But then in high school soccer, we stop the clock after a goal or when issuing a card, or for an injury on field when the coach is called out (and then the player has to leave the field).
Remember, we can add time at the end of each half for injuries, substitutions, time wasting by players, etc.
June 21, 2010 at 9:45 am
Also, NFL games (American Football) is a different beast. It is a coaches game and there are lots of breaks to announce what is going on to both coaches and spectators.
Please, don't make Football (Soccer) into other American sports. It has its own unique history and style. It is a players game, leave it that way.
June 21, 2010 at 9:49 am
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Clock? We have a clock, it is on our wrist. In fact, take a close look at the center referee when you watch a World Cup game, you may notice that the center is actually wearing two watches. The official time keeper is the Center Referee. The AR's are usually tasked with backing up the Center Referee, but his clock is the official clock. Except when you go to a high school game played in a stadium, then the stadium clock is the official time. But then in high school soccer, we stop the clock after a goal or when issuing a card, or for an injury on field when the coach is called out (and then the player has to leave the field).Remember, we can add time at the end of each half for injuries, substitutions, time wasting by players, etc.
The lack of that clock being visible to players/coaches, for that additional time, is the failing. They don't know if they need to be pressing, if they are down to the final minute, etc. I've seen the referee looking at his watch, but not surfacing that information, while it creates tension, I think it does a disservice to the players competing.
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June 21, 2010 at 9:53 am
Steve Jones - Editor (6/21/2010)
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Clock? We have a clock, it is on our wrist. In fact, take a close look at the center referee when you watch a World Cup game, you may notice that the center is actually wearing two watches. The official time keeper is the Center Referee. The AR's are usually tasked with backing up the Center Referee, but his clock is the official clock. Except when you go to a high school game played in a stadium, then the stadium clock is the official time. But then in high school soccer, we stop the clock after a goal or when issuing a card, or for an injury on field when the coach is called out (and then the player has to leave the field).Remember, we can add time at the end of each half for injuries, substitutions, time wasting by players, etc.
The lack of that clock being visible to players/coaches, for that additional time, is the failing. They don't know if they need to be pressing, if they are down to the final minute, etc. I've seen the referee looking at his watch, but not surfacing that information, while it creates tension, I think it does a disservice to the players competing.
Everyone (players, coaches and supporters) knows quite exactly what the extra time will be. They're used to it.
-- Gianluca Sartori
June 21, 2010 at 9:54 am
If they know, why not surface it on the TV? Or in the stadium? Why not have an official timekeeper handling that on the scoreboard?
I bet there are lots of people (fans, players) that don't know, certainly not exactly.
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June 21, 2010 at 10:01 am
Steve Jones - Editor (6/21/2010)
If they know, why not surface it on the TV? Or in the stadium? Why not have an official timekeeper handling that on the scoreboard?I bet there are lots of people (fans, players) that don't know, certainly not exactly.
Hmmm, while watching the World Cup At the end of regulation time I see the fourth official hold up an electronic sign that shows how many minutes of extra time are being added (and remember, the center referee can add addtional time during the additional time if necessary), and this is shown on the TV by the broadcasters as well.
Most players just play until the referee ends the half. If interested, they can always ask the referee how time is left. As long as they aren't asking every 30 seconds, I'll answer them.
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