July 12, 2010 at 9:39 am
GilaMonster (7/12/2010)
Alvin Ramard (7/12/2010)
Seemed obvious to me that the OP had never programmed an UPDATE statement before.Agreed. That's not something that you can just forget. Plus, someone who's done consulting and training on SQL for 4 years shouldn't be finding a Books Online entry complicated. I haven't done C++ since university, but I still remember the basics and can read the help files.
Who's comment do you think he found 'hurtful'? I'd kinda expect a military vet to have a bit of a thicker skin
I think it's something you can easily forget. In the 80s and early 90s, I was doing research on relational databases, managing the design of a massively parallel database engine, getting patents on various aspects of database, working with experts from several companies and universities on extensions to the SQL language, and so on - I had a thorough understanding of SQL (in its Ingres, Postgres, Oracle, and Sybase manifestations as well as several experimental versions from ICL, Bull, and others). A few years later, when I had been doing something completely different for some time, although I could still look at at data requirement and associated database sizing and know whether it was good work or nonsense, I couldn't have written an update statement top save my life - it took me a few weeks to get back up to speed. So I know from experience that it's possible to be an expert and then forget how to programme in a particular language.
As for Alvin's comment: I thought that Jason's sending the url for the UPDATE page of BoL was one of the most unhelpful things I have ever seen (and many people, I think, would think it likely that it was intended to be both unhelpful and patronising; having seen Jason's style, I doubt that). The OP responded with a post that showed clearly that (a) he can write update statements and (b) the poblem was how to make the various parts of the update dependent on various different conditions. It could be sone with multiple update statements selected by IF statements. It could also be done with multiple update statements which could become no-ops depending on a where clause condition. Or with a single update statement using IsNull and/or coalesce in the set list. Alvin's telling him in effect that if he couldn't get the answer from the UPDATE page he was incompetent was not a helpful response, and I don't understand how anyone could tegard it either as useful or as not hurtful. Steve's response (outlining how to do it using IF) was helpful.
As for expecting vets to have thicker skins: ever heard of PTSD? It often decreases the (figurative) thickness of the skin.
Tom
July 12, 2010 at 9:48 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/12/2010)
Chad Crawford (7/12/2010)
Jeff Moden (7/9/2010)
I promise to publish it right after PASS if it's not called upon.🙁 I don't want to wait. I had to build a hierarchy on 2005 (no HierarchyID), so I did my own research and rolled my own implementation. It's not been heavily used, but was getting ready for a big push on it since it is faster and better than the current solution. I'd love to see what you did before I commit to my implementation and get everyone to move over. DRAT! DRAT! DRAT!
Chad
Publish it now. There's no "great secret" to keep until the presentation. You talking about it will add value to what's written, even if they've read it.
Everything, or nearly everything I see Paul Randal present is written down on his blog or elsewhere. Doesn't change the desire to see him talk.
Agreed - Publish it now.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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July 12, 2010 at 10:08 am
Tom.Thomson (7/12/2010)
I thought that Jason's sending the url for the UPDATE page of BoL was one of the most unhelpful things I have ever seen (and many people, I think, would think it likely that it was intended to be both unhelpful and patronising; having seen Jason's style, I doubt that). The OP responded with a post that showed clearly that (a) he can write update statements
You're right, we could have asked him to demonstrate what he knew first or just given the answer to him straight away. However, the link demonstrated that the topic was too complicated for him (based on his answer). Which seems contradictory since he posted an update statement - which he would have been able to do if he read and understood that article. It appeared that he had no clue as to how to write an update statement - so some learning and effort from him is helpful. Thus the link got posted. Since he posted more, that seems to me that the link was useful in some manner.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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July 12, 2010 at 10:50 am
This is a very tricky requirement and I did my best to solve it, with no luck.
http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost950057.aspx
Can somebody suggest something better? I'm totally stuck.
-- Gianluca Sartori
July 12, 2010 at 11:23 am
CirquedeSQLeil (7/11/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (7/11/2010)
I added my thoughts to the thread. I think the guy/gal was humble enough, admitting he was in over his head there. I am hoping, with my best effort, that this person is a developer that just hasn't had experience with SQL Server. I have to admit that I was surprised that Jason's BOL link was too complex, but I do understand the that BNF or whatever it's called for structure is intimidating to beginners.Hopefully he'll learn.
I wonder if maybe it (the link as an example) just seems too simple for us because we have been working with SQL for a while. Do as anybody find themselves second guessing the complexity of a problem, maybe because they have been doing it for soooo long? Like maybe when you were fresh meat as a DBA or developer and had to do this or that, then do a similar task now and wonder what you were doing way back when.
The answer to that is NO, it does not just 'seem simple' to you because you've been doing it too long. You don't have to understand every word on the BOL page to get the sense of how to use it, and if someone is in the position they are in and can't get it done in the time allotted, then they are in over their head. End of story. Sink or swim, hope they can tread water long enough to figure something out without causing a catastrophe.
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
July 12, 2010 at 11:25 am
Alvin Ramard (7/12/2010)
Start a sentence with "like I went to the view i created" and I see warning flags go up right away. (FYI, for those who don't know already, English is not my first language.)
Like why, Scooby? :hehe:
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
July 12, 2010 at 11:28 am
CirquedeSQLeil (7/12/2010)
Tom.Thomson (7/12/2010)
I thought that Jason's sending the url for the UPDATE page of BoL was one of the most unhelpful things I have ever seen (and many people, I think, would think it likely that it was intended to be both unhelpful and patronising; having seen Jason's style, I doubt that). The OP responded with a post that showed clearly that (a) he can write update statements
You're right, we could have asked him to demonstrate what he knew first or just given the answer to him straight away. However, the link demonstrated that the topic was too complicated for him (based on his answer). Which seems contradictory since he posted an update statement - which he would have been able to do if he read and understood that article. It appeared that he had no clue as to how to write an update statement - so some learning and effort from him is helpful. Thus the link got posted. Since he posted more, that seems to me that the link was useful in some manner.
Hearing the ops story reminded me of someone I worked with when I was new in my career. He had been working in IT/Technology a long time probably 15 to 20 years. My boss had hired him to do cabling and I kept having to explain some of the basics over and over with him every day. His work was a little slow but the results were excellent.
The reviewing the basics got old quick. After a couple of weeks I had a one on one with my boss and I found out that this person had mentored my boss but had a stroke a few years earlier.
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July 12, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Lynn Pettis (7/12/2010)
Having an interesting issue with our mirroring environment if anyone would like to provide some advice here.
He who lives in glass houses....:w00t:
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
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July 12, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Lynn,
Constructively, I haven't run into that issue. I think the rebuild of the witness would be a good avenue - but don't take just my word for that.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 13, 2010 at 3:20 pm
WayneS (7/12/2010)
Fellow Threadizens - I'm having problems getting ssis pkgs/maint plans on a second (named) instance on a 2-node cluster running from the standby node. If you can help, please check out this post.Thanks!
Anyone have any help for this? I'm running out of hair to pull out!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
July 13, 2010 at 3:42 pm
WayneS (7/13/2010)
WayneS (7/12/2010)
Fellow Threadizens - I'm having problems getting ssis pkgs/maint plans on a second (named) instance on a 2-node cluster running from the standby node. If you can help, please check out this post.Thanks!
Anyone have any help for this? I'm running out of hair to pull out!
I posted a slew of questions for you.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 13, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Anybody have any comments on this nugget?
• Never include a USE <database> statement in scripts.
I just found this in a doc here at work.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 13, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Like most anything, I think it depends. I have it in a lot of scripts to be sure that I end up in the right database.
However for things like deployment scripts, VCS scripts, I think it can be a bad idea since it assumes that you are deploying to xxx database.
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July 13, 2010 at 4:44 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (7/13/2010)
Anybody have any comments on this nugget?• Never include a USE <database> statement in scripts.
I just found this in a doc here at work.
I'm with Steve, it depends. It also depends who the audience for the doc was.
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