June 20, 2011 at 10:13 am
Steve, that is one nasty cut on the horse. Sure hope it heals okay, and no further issues with that!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
June 20, 2011 at 11:33 am
Dave Ballantyne (6/19/2011)
Ok , so we all have differing opinions of Celko, but a response after three and a half years :crazy:
I took a quick look at some random pages from one of his books. I'm sure it does well in academic circles, but his insistence in not tailoring a lot of his answers to SQL Server is maddening.
My goto book is Inside SQL Server 2005: T-SQL Querying, edited by Kalen Delaney. It may be SQL 2005, but has really stood the test of time with me, better than the more arcane adherence to ANSI standards Celko seems to prefer. Keeping it generic for everyone makes it useful for none.
edit: Changed '...tailoring ANY of his answers...' to '...tailoring a lot of his answers...', as I haven't had the pleasure of reading all of his posts so can't really put an accurate number on that. 🙂
Gaby
________________________________________________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
- Albert Einstein
June 20, 2011 at 11:42 am
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Dave Ballantyne (6/19/2011)
Ok , so we all have differing opinions of Celko, but a response after three and a half years :crazy:I took a quick look at some random pages from one of his books. I'm sure it does well in academic circles, but his insistence in not tailoring a lot of his answers to SQL Server is maddening.
My goto book is Inside SQL Server 2005: T-SQL Querying, edited by Kalen Delaney. It may be SQL 2005, but has really stood the test of time with me, better than the more arcane adherence to ANSI standards Celko seems to prefer. Keeping it generic for everyone makes it useful for none.
edit: Changed '...tailoring ANY of his answers...' to '...tailoring a lot of his answers...', as I haven't had the pleasure of reading all of his posts.
Nor does it allow you to harness the power of the database engine (SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, etc) to the benefit of the application and the business.
June 20, 2011 at 11:51 am
Lynn Pettis (6/20/2011)
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Dave Ballantyne (6/19/2011)
Ok , so we all have differing opinions of Celko, but a response after three and a half years :crazy:I took a quick look at some random pages from one of his books. I'm sure it does well in academic circles, but his insistence in not tailoring a lot of his answers to SQL Server is maddening.
My goto book is Inside SQL Server 2005: T-SQL Querying, edited by Kalen Delaney. It may be SQL 2005, but has really stood the test of time with me, better than the more arcane adherence to ANSI standards Celko seems to prefer. Keeping it generic for everyone makes it useful for none.
edit: Changed '...tailoring ANY of his answers...' to '...tailoring a lot of his answers...', as I haven't had the pleasure of reading all of his posts.
Nor does it allow you to harness the power of the database engine (SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, etc) to the benefit of the application and the business.
Anyone know if he has official Microsoft MVP designation, either now, or in the past?
Gaby
________________________________________________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
- Albert Einstein
June 20, 2011 at 12:04 pm
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Anyone know if he has official Microsoft MVP designation, either now, or in the past?
AFAIK, he never has. Not enough contributions to the SQL Server community, and not sure anyone has nominated him.
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June 20, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/20/2011)
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Anyone know if he has official Microsoft MVP designation, either now, or in the past?
AFAIK, he never has. Not enough contributions to the SQL Server community, and not sure anyone has nominated him.
GabyYYZ - The question is, does he want to be an MVP? It might be a title that hinders him in his chosen career and career aspirations. After all, he's very "portable code" minded and the thought of being tied to one particular product might offend his sensibilities.
MVPs are usually grand people, great contributors, etc. But the title MVP is not the be-all, end-all of SQL Guruness. It's just a title. One to be proud of, mind, but still just a title. There are several non-MVP people who give good advice. I value their opinions a great deal. What does MVP have to do with their ability to answer my questions?
June 20, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Brandie Tarvin (6/20/2011)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/20/2011)
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Anyone know if he has official Microsoft MVP designation, either now, or in the past?
AFAIK, he never has. Not enough contributions to the SQL Server community, and not sure anyone has nominated him.
GabyYYZ - The question is, does he want to be an MVP? It might be a title that hinders him in his chosen career and career aspirations. After all, he's very "portable code" minded and the thought of being tied to one particular product might offend his sensibilities.
MVPs are usually grand people, great contributors, etc. But the title MVP is not the be-all, end-all of SQL Guruness. It's just a title. One to be proud of, mind, but still just a title. There are several non-MVP people who give good advice. I value their opinions a great deal. What does MVP have to do with their ability to answer my questions?
Well, MVP is the highest official accolade from MS, but I fully agree that it's not the end-all/be-all, but more a reflection of how your peers view you after many years of experience, and there are many great SQL Server professionals who probably don't even want the designation. I guess I asked the question to see if I can get a handle on Celko's whole history, where he came from, and how he's at Ten Centuries. 🙂
Gaby
________________________________________________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
- Albert Einstein
June 20, 2011 at 2:28 pm
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (6/20/2011)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/20/2011)
GabyYYZ (6/20/2011)
Anyone know if he has official Microsoft MVP designation, either now, or in the past?
AFAIK, he never has. Not enough contributions to the SQL Server community, and not sure anyone has nominated him.
GabyYYZ - The question is, does he want to be an MVP? It might be a title that hinders him in his chosen career and career aspirations. After all, he's very "portable code" minded and the thought of being tied to one particular product might offend his sensibilities.
MVPs are usually grand people, great contributors, etc. But the title MVP is not the be-all, end-all of SQL Guruness. It's just a title. One to be proud of, mind, but still just a title. There are several non-MVP people who give good advice. I value their opinions a great deal. What does MVP have to do with their ability to answer my questions?
Well, MVP is the highest official accolade from MS, but I fully agree that it's not the end-all/be-all, but more a reflection of how your peers view you after many years of experience, and there are many great SQL Server professionals who probably don't even want the designation. I guess I asked the question to see if I can get a handle on Celko's whole history, where he came from, and how he's at Ten Centuries. 🙂
Getting to Ten Centuries is easy, I've done it just by posting every few days or so and participating in the QOD. I've been doing this for a few years and old Joe has been around longer than that.
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June 20, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Any ideas?
http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1128502-391-1.aspx
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato
June 20, 2011 at 4:20 pm
EDIT: oops...wrong thread
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato
June 20, 2011 at 4:44 pm
[rant]
AAARRRGGGHHH....
One more person, just one more, who applies for an SSIS position (it's specifically advertised as an SSIS position) who's done nothing more than use it as a cross-server source/destination mover and I might start getting grumpy.
You know, while we're on that topic, what is it with people who don't even bother to look up information before they interview on something that they have worked on (in theory, for 2 years) and only know two or three controls in? Wouldn't you at least go browse the obvious components and get a vague idea of what you're applying for? It's not like you haven't opened and used the thing for 2 years and ignored most of it...
Do I expect everyone to know the mechanics of how an aggregation will block the stream? No. Do I expect "Describe to me the derived column component" to end up with deer in headlights? No, not really. This isn't a one off case, either. I've gotten through one phone screen where someone could give me a semi-coherent answer. Most sound like Bill Cosby's kids: "I dunno...."
Don't even get me started on the incredibly interesting answers I've gotten for "Describe two differences between Truncate and Delete".
[/rant]
Thank you for reading, we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
June 20, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Craig Farrell (6/20/2011)
[rant]AAARRRGGGHHH....
....
[/rant]
Thank you for reading, we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity.
But Craig, don't you realise that it is normal for all advertised jobs in computing that the majority of applicants come nowhere near the advertised requirement? It's sort of the flip side of the lunatic requirement thing, which is also the norm (you know the kind of advert I mean - something like an advert for an engineer with a working knowledge of .NET 3.5 plus at least 6 years experience of doing BI using SQL Server 2008 R2 Analysis Services, which clearly requires the engineer to have a working time machine rather than a working knowledge of something). Applicants see a requirement for something they couldn't imaginably fit, but since they have learnt that all advertisements pose requirements that can't conceivably be met by anyone they might as well apply anyway if they have even the slightest connection with a couple of the requirements.
It is a pain, of course, and when I was recruiting I used to get really irritated by it. But I blame the employment agencies (and the HR departments), not the applicants, because it is the agencies and the HR people who have created this culture of asking for knowledge and experience that imply an age of about 45 when recruiting for a post that could be filled be a new graduate with no real experience, with similar nonsensical inflation all the way up the scale.
Tom
June 20, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Tom.Thomson (6/20/2011)
But Craig, don't you realise that it is normal for all advertised jobs in computing that the majority of applicants come nowhere near the advertised requirement? It's sort of the flip side of the lunatic requirement thing, which is also the norm
Noted. I've got the desktop stress reliever on my desk due to this...
It is a pain, of course, and when I was recruiting I used to get really irritated by it. But I blame the employment agencies (and the HR departments), not the applicants
No, I blame the applicants too. It's one thing to have half a clue and decide to give it a go. Hell, that's how I GOT my senior positions long before I had a realistic chance of doing it. To the rest of their staff though I *was* a senior, just needed to fill in some gaps. You've at least got a basic ability to perform the job, even if they are asking for MCM level ability in it.
It's another to have coded (for equivalency) a few SELECT statements with two table joins and tell me you're an optimization guru.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
June 20, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Craig Farrell (6/20/2011)
[rant]AAARRRGGGHHH....
One more person, just one more, who applies for an SSIS position (it's specifically advertised as an SSIS position) who's done nothing more than use it as a cross-server source/destination mover and I might start getting grumpy.
You know, while we're on that topic, what is it with people who don't even bother to look up information before they interview on something that they have worked on (in theory, for 2 years) and only know two or three controls in? Wouldn't you at least go browse the obvious components and get a vague idea of what you're applying for? It's not like you haven't opened and used the thing for 2 years and ignored most of it...
Do I expect everyone to know the mechanics of how an aggregation will block the stream? No. Do I expect "Describe to me the derived column component" to end up with deer in headlights? No, not really. This isn't a one off case, either. I've gotten through one phone screen where someone could give me a semi-coherent answer. Most sound like Bill Cosby's kids: "I dunno...."
Don't even get me started on the incredibly interesting answers I've gotten for "Describe two differences between Truncate and Delete".
[/rant]
Thank you for reading, we now return you to your regularly scheduled insanity.
Craig,
Is this a mandatory butts-in-chair position or is it something that could actually be done remotely (even during evening and weekend hours)? There may be qualified applicants who really aren't interested in moving to AZ but may be interested in working remotely.
June 20, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/20/2011)
Craig,Is this a mandatory butts-in-chair position or is it something that could actually be done remotely (even during evening and weekend hours)? There may be qualified applicants who really aren't interested in moving to AZ but may be interested in working remotely.
Butt-in-chair position. Some telecommute but office time is mandatory, and I don't disagree with why they want face to face meetings when things seem to go a lot faster that way.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
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