March 16, 2009 at 7:33 am
Jeff Moden (3/14/2009)
RBarryYoung (3/14/2009)
OK, foxjazz, now I have a question for you:foxjazz (3/14/2009)
Ok, yes I did it that way before. Except you have to do it in 4 distinct query sets, and link the first results to the other set, and so on.Ok, another problem:...
We have now easily solved three of your "impossible" cursor problems without any cursors. The only difficult thing about any of these has been trying to figure out what you are talking about. How many more of these do we have to solve before you accept that you problem with SQL is not shortcomings in SQL, but rather shortcomings in your understanding of SQL?
I have this vision of Tom Sawyer white-washing a fence. 😉
I was thinking the same thing. Guy doesn't seem to understand that he could start out with "hey, I don't understand how to accomplish these two things in SQL, can anyone help?", and he'd get further faster without offending people.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 16, 2009 at 7:38 am
GSquared (3/16/2009)
Jeff Moden (3/14/2009)
RBarryYoung (3/14/2009)
OK, foxjazz, now I have a question for you:foxjazz (3/14/2009)
Ok, yes I did it that way before. Except you have to do it in 4 distinct query sets, and link the first results to the other set, and so on.Ok, another problem:...
We have now easily solved three of your "impossible" cursor problems without any cursors. The only difficult thing about any of these has been trying to figure out what you are talking about. How many more of these do we have to solve before you accept that you problem with SQL is not shortcomings in SQL, but rather shortcomings in your understanding of SQL?
I have this vision of Tom Sawyer white-washing a fence. 😉
I was thinking the same thing. Guy doesn't seem to understand that he could start out with "hey, I don't understand how to accomplish these two things in SQL, can anyone help?", and he'd get further faster without offending people.
But Tom Sawyer got other people to do his work for him WITHOUT insulting and offending people. Obviously, and I may be wrong here, foxjazz must not have read it.
March 16, 2009 at 7:40 am
foxjazz (3/14/2009)
Ok set this baby... Real world.I have a table catagory fields are description, catID, typeID. parentID
another tables queryed with (make, model, yr, engine).
in the category table makes are typeid = 1, models typeid = 2, years , typeid = 3, engines, typeid = 4.
for each model, the parentid points to the make of the model. Yes it's hiearchical.
This is real world folks, do this in T-Sql without using a cursor.
And it doesn't matter whether identity insert is set to on or off, can be either way on the primary key (CATID).
If there is anything I left out, let me know.
Why do I suspect that we're slowly being led to a point where he wants us to solve an actual problem at work, rather than just a general rant as he puts it. Don't take the bait people!
On another note, I come from a programming background, mainly C/C++ and C++, which is object-oriented, when used properly, is way different from C. However, many programmers in object-oriented languages never fully utilize the capabilities of their programming languages and instead wind up using a glorified procedural language, masked in the syntax of object-orientation.
Are those who use C++ (and now C#) so different from those who use T-SQL to write inefficient queries, because they didn't take the time to switch the way they think from procedural to set-based?
Gaby
Gaby
________________________________________________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
- Albert Einstein
March 16, 2009 at 7:46 am
foxjazz (3/14/2009)
Do any of you know a language other than English? Spanish, as a second or German?Because using English is dominant, I struggle with German as a second. I can use it, but why should I be made to use it?
I personally am highly familiar with t-sql, but do most of my stuff in c#. Why am I forced to write in this other language?
Knowing how to do stuff, and prefering to do it differently are two vastly different things. I think that is where most of the confusion comes from.
I like c# way over vb, and when I am coding in VB and I put a ; at the end of the line, my IDE is smart enough to delete it for me.
This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. It's habitual. Why not have t-sql be capable of merging with other languages by preference?
I speak a bit of Spanish, and a very small amount of French. Enough that a dictionary is all I need to get by in either language, so long as everyone is a bit patient with me. If I had to use either one on a regular basis, I would take the time to master it enough to fool natives into thinking I grew up with it.
Your attitude is, "I'm vacationing in Germany, and I only know a couple of words, so everyone in Germany should be forced to learn fluent English". That's what you're saying about T-SQL.
Your basic argument is not, "T-SQL is bad", it's "it's not convenient for me to master T-SQL". There's a big difference in those two statements.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 16, 2009 at 7:46 am
Gift Peddie, apologies. I've edited the post.
Thanks Steve, I know you remove these things quickly as needed.
🙂
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 16, 2009 at 8:05 am
Why do I suspect that we're slowly being led to a point where he wants us to solve an actual problem at work, rather than just a general rant as he puts it. Don't take the bait people!
Why not? We do that for each other all the time. He just needs to ask nicely.
However, many programmers in object-oriented languages never fully utilize the capabilities of their programming languages and instead wind up using a glorified procedural language, masked in the syntax of object-orientation.
Amen. I've met a few people who thought they were hot coders because they could use an object. They also thought they knew SQL because they knew what a SELECT statement was (as long as it didn't involve a JOIN, a GROUP BY, a CASE statement, a subquery, etc, etc, ad nauseam.)
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 16, 2009 at 8:05 am
foxjazz (3/14/2009)
I guess I just don't get why everyone here is so walled up and can't think outside the box.Stored procedures in sql result only in one language type, not many.
the IDL compiler can handle multiple.
Its really sad to see so many people stuck in a paradigm they can't think their way out of.
I'm not the one in a box here. I have the freedom to use the right tools to get my job done.
What you want is a Swiss Army knife. One tool that can be used to drive nails, set screws, carve wood, open wine bottles, start fires, file your fingernails, etc. The problem with such tools is that they inevitably end up being "jack of all trades, master of none".
I have a pocketknife. It won't do all the things a Swiss Army knife will do. But it cuts better than any Swiss Army knife ever made. I have a screwdriver set. It won't cut much of anything, but it's much better at driving or removing screws than the generic tool is. I have a couple of pairs of scissors (two different sizes for paper, two for cloth). Not so good for filing my fingernails, driving screws or opening wine bottles, but much, much better at cutting stuff with fine control or large cuts than the little things on Swiss Army knives. And don't even try to compare your Swiss Army knife to my table saw when it comes to cutting boards and planks!
I also have VB.NET and T-SQL. I use each for its intended purpose, and get a better job done faster. You have C#, and have a slight grasp of T-SQL (as evidenced by your posts, as opposed to what you claim), and you hate one of them (which is like hating staple-guns). Your Swiss Army knife (C# extended to deal with SQL databases) won't do as good a job at it as my separate, specialized tools.
Don't hate the tools. Learn to use them. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is also freedom. Set yourself free, grant yourself some power. Learn to master things instead of letting things master you. The only limitation on this is the one you impose on yourself.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 16, 2009 at 8:11 am
Aaarrgh! Stop already! This thread is like a giant bag of potato chips -- I just can't stop reading it!
Or are we going for a record number of posts on this one?
🙂
March 16, 2009 at 8:15 am
dmbaker (3/16/2009)
Aaarrgh! Stop already! This thread is like a giant bag of potato chips -- I just can't stop reading it!Or are we going for a record number of posts on this one?
🙂
It won't even get close. Guaranteed! "The Thread" suffers no rivals! 🙂
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 16, 2009 at 8:37 am
I think THE THREAD has no worries from this one.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
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March 16, 2009 at 8:43 am
Gaby Abed (3/16/2009)
Why do I suspect that we're slowly being led to a point where he wants us to solve an actual problem at work, rather than just a general rant as he puts it. Don't take the bait people!Gaby
Exactly what I've been thinking as I read through the pages in this post.
-- You can't be late until you show up.
March 16, 2009 at 8:44 am
Lynn Pettis (3/16/2009)
But Tom Sawyer got other people to do his work for him WITHOUT insulting and offending people. Obviously, and I may be wrong here, foxjazz must not have read it.
My sons (10 and 16) haven't read it either. I need to get a copy.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
March 16, 2009 at 8:47 am
On another note, I come from a programming background, mainly C/C++ and C++, which is object-oriented, when used properly, is way different from C. However, many programmers in object-oriented languages never fully utilize the capabilities of their programming languages and instead wind up using a glorified procedural language, masked in the syntax of object-orientation.
There is 20 to 30 percent of developers who do both objects and RDBMS effectively but there is 40 to 50 percent who either refuse to learn or just plain don't know that thinks RDBMS should just go away. The 40 to 50 percent are the relational algebra challenged and object impaired because they don't objects just pretend to know.
RDBMS will go away when there is a viable replacement, because applications without persistence run into many issues which points to expensive rewrite because someone have decided to skip adding DAL and the relational model of the application.
The DAL and relational model are cheap if added at design time than costly refactor and rewrites because a developer thinks objects will do everything in multi purpose use applications.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 16, 2009 at 8:48 am
Steve Jones - Editor (3/16/2009)
I think THE THREAD has no worries from this one.
I'm guessing this thread is the one you're referring to? 🙂
Gaby
Gaby
________________________________________________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
- Albert Einstein
March 16, 2009 at 8:52 am
Maybe Fox should just stop using Database and start using flat files. That should solve his issues. 😀
Just kidding.... Fox, You should try to learn how to write efficient T-SQL. No use ranting about it. I have worked as DBA, Programmer and Network Admin. For each job I had to learn different sets off tools. You want to do something that looks professional, learn... Learn.
-Roy
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