March 26, 2010 at 8:57 am
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/26/2010)
What does this have to do with writing a better book than Microsoft??
And by the way, I agree that children are the future, and it is up to us to educate them, and it needs to be controlled at the local level, not the federal level.
The exams cost $125 so Microsoft is obligated to provide a decent book. The joys of the US is competition Oracle owns the missing engineering note to self check back Oracle site to see new changes in Java.
No they aren't. If I created a business that offered a MS Centric certification between MCITP and MCM, I would have absolutely NO obligation to provide ANY study materials beyond a guide as to what the test would cover such that people paying to take the tests would know what to expect on the test.
That is like saying that your school board must write the books to educate according to the curriculum. We all know that isn't the case. The schools purchase books from somebody else.
At the University level, you pay quite a bit more for your education. Does the University write the books? Not in all cases. Many of the courses require texts written by somebody from a competing University or not from a University at all.
Just because somebody establishes learning requirements or a curriculum, does not indicate any responsibility on their part to write the text books from which you study.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 26, 2010 at 8:58 am
I will say one last thing, I make a living out of MS products as a lot of people here. To expect people like us to take down the company completely and blame them for so many ills in society is somewhat inappropriate (to me) - perhaps this argumetn has to go one of the many forums that are dedicated to that kind of debates and arguments and we need to keep the focus on how to improve and work with certifications the way they are now.
Where in my post I am talking about taking Microsoft down? And where did I blame them for societal ills?
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 26, 2010 at 9:07 am
Are you sure about that?
Lincoln died in 1865 and Texas started Secession proceedings in 1861 when Lincoln first became President. Texas was not admitted back into the Union with full regards until 1870.
(source Texas State Library)
I am very sure of that because Texas created A&M but it was not open to blacks so it was asked to provide equal version for blacks, almost all black universities in Texas are state owned and funded. It could be some of the reasons to start the session which was tried even this year by the now governor. The state signed into law the equality of both A&M systems when it was proven the state was told to educate blacks by Lincoln. The same Texas library will tell you President Lyndon Johnson one of the most important presidents in modern times was a confused man.
Furthermore, Education is not a guaranteed right to anybody. It is not a system of fairness and equality though people want to throw that out there. Education is a privilege. And like it or not, some people become more educated than others due to opportunities not granted to others.
It is your right to vote and bare arms, but it is only a privilege to be educated.
Please read up on Brown vs Board of education and again the constitution did not include 75% percent of the then population.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 26, 2010 at 9:20 am
Gift Peddie (3/26/2010)
Are you sure about that?
Lincoln died in 1865 and Texas started Secession proceedings in 1861 when Lincoln first became President. Texas was not admitted back into the Union with full regards until 1870.
(source Texas State Library)
I am very sure of that because Texas created A&M but it was not open to blacks so it was asked to provide equal version for blacks, almost all black universities in Texas are state owned and funded. It could be some of the reasons to start the session which is tried even this year by the now governor. The state signed into law the equality of both A&M systems when it was proven the state was told to educate black by Lincoln. The same Texas library will tell you President Lyndon Johnson one of the most important presidents in modern times with a confused man.
Furthermore, Education is not a guaranteed right to anybody. It is not a system of fairness and equality though people want to throw that out there. Education is a privilege. And like it or not, some people become more educated than others due to opportunities not granted to others.
It is your right to vote and bare arms, but it is only a privilege to be educated.
Please read up on Brown vs Board of education and again the constitution did not include 75% percent of the then population.
I am familiar with Brown V Board. It was required for my Special Education Courses at University. It has nothing to do with education as a right but the equality of educational opportunities.
As for the 75% of people being excluded from the constitution, you need to go back and study your constitution. The constitution and Bill of Rights has not changed. The interpretation has. You were included in the constitution, you were unfortunately excluded due to some inappropriate interpretations of same said constitution.
As for Lincoln instructing the state of Texas to do something while Texas was trying to secede, you need to provide references.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 26, 2010 at 9:22 am
Gift Peddie (3/26/2010)
Are you sure about that?
Lincoln died in 1865 and Texas started Secession proceedings in 1861 when Lincoln first became President. Texas was not admitted back into the Union with full regards until 1870.
(source Texas State Library)
I am very sure of that because Texas created A&M but it was not open to blacks so it was asked to provide equal version for blacks, almost all black universities in Texas are state owned and funded. It could be some of the reasons to start the session which is tried even this year by the now governor. The state signed into law the equality of both A&M systems when it was proven the state was told to educate black by Lincoln. The same Texas library will tell you President Lyndon Johnson one of the most important presidents in modern times with a confused man.
Furthermore, Education is not a guaranteed right to anybody. It is not a system of fairness and equality though people want to throw that out there. Education is a privilege. And like it or not, some people become more educated than others due to opportunities not granted to others.
It is your right to vote and bare arms, but it is only a privilege to be educated.
Please read up on Brown vs Board of education and again the constitution did not include 75% percent of the then population.
It is easy to read into the Constitution what ever you want by simply ignoring the fact that the Constitution, particularly the original document and the Bill of Rights needs to be interpreted based on what the writers meant in their language, by looking at their writings of the times and their own interpretations as well, not by the meanings of the words in todays language.
The writings of Thomas Jefferson as well as the Federalist Papers are a key part of understanding the Constitution and should be required reading by everyone, especially members of Congress and the residents of the White House.
March 26, 2010 at 9:27 am
At this point, I'm ending this conversation. Let this thread get back on topic, which is The Missing Certification.
I am more than willing to discuss what would be a good solution to filling the gap between the MCITP and MCM.
March 26, 2010 at 9:30 am
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
At this point, I'm ending this conversation. Let this thread get back on topic, which is The Missing Certification.I am more than willing to discuss what would be a good solution to filling the gap between the MCITP and MCM.
I think there should be an MCJ (Journeyman). The MCITP can stay as is, but the Journeyman would be a good filler.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 26, 2010 at 9:40 am
It has nothing to do with education as a right but the equality of educational opportunities.
That is semantics.
As for the 75% of people being excluded from the constitution, you need to go back and study your constitution. The constitution and Bill of Rights has not changed. The interpretation has. You were included in the constitution, you were unfortunately excluded due to some inappropriate interpretations of same said constitution.
I don't have to the changes to a bad system are always through persistence which is all I have been doing and will continue to do.
As for Lincoln instructing the state of Texas to do something while Texas was trying to secede, you need to provide references.
The state of Texas tries to secede every few years I blame proximity. The current governor tried this year. I will look up the creation of the blacks A&M system in Texas and post it.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 26, 2010 at 9:46 am
It is easy to read into the Constitution what ever you want by simply ignoring the fact that the Constitution, particularly the original document and the Bill of Rights needs to be interpreted based on what the writers meant in their language, by looking at their writings of the times and their own interpretations as well, not by the meanings of the words in todays language.
Short and succinct by the 25% covered.
The writings of Thomas Jefferson as well as the Federalist Papers are a key part of understanding the Constitution and should be required reading by everyone, especially members of Congress and the residents of the White House.
I always want to know more about the missing president Ben Francklin.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 26, 2010 at 9:54 am
Gift Peddie (3/26/2010)
I always want to know more about the missing president Ben Francklin.
He never was President, so not missing.
March 26, 2010 at 9:57 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/26/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
At this point, I'm ending this conversation. Let this thread get back on topic, which is The Missing Certification.I am more than willing to discuss what would be a good solution to filling the gap between the MCITP and MCM.
I think there should be an MCJ (Journeyman). The MCITP can stay as is, but the Journeyman would be a good filler.
Okay, sounds like a good starting point.
Now, let's starting putting together the requirements.
I'll start by saying that there needs to be documented experience with the product in business environment (this could also be government, non-profit, etc.). Question here, how much? One year, two years, more?
March 26, 2010 at 10:02 am
He never was President, so not missing.
Let me explain the opportunity cost of Ben Franklin not one of the early presidents.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 26, 2010 at 10:06 am
Gift Peddie (3/26/2010)
He never was President, so not missing.
Let me explain the opportunity cost of Ben Franklin not one of the early presidents.
Sorry, but we are discussing a missing certification level here. If you have something to add to this discussion, more than willing to listen.
March 26, 2010 at 10:08 am
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/26/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
At this point, I'm ending this conversation. Let this thread get back on topic, which is The Missing Certification.I am more than willing to discuss what would be a good solution to filling the gap between the MCITP and MCM.
I think there should be an MCJ (Journeyman). The MCITP can stay as is, but the Journeyman would be a good filler.
Okay, sounds like a good starting point.
Now, let's starting putting together the requirements.
I'll start by saying that there needs to be documented experience with the product in business environment (this could also be government, non-profit, etc.). Question here, how much? One year, two years, more?
I believe the MCM requires 5 years experience, so let's start with 2.
To be a JourneyMan, would you need to have had somebody sign off for you to be a Journeyman (as with the trades)?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 26, 2010 at 10:10 am
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/26/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/26/2010)
At this point, I'm ending this conversation. Let this thread get back on topic, which is The Missing Certification.I am more than willing to discuss what would be a good solution to filling the gap between the MCITP and MCM.
I think there should be an MCJ (Journeyman). The MCITP can stay as is, but the Journeyman would be a good filler.
Okay, sounds like a good starting point.
Now, let's starting putting together the requirements.
I'll start by saying that there needs to be documented experience with the product in business environment (this could also be government, non-profit, etc.). Question here, how much? One year, two years, more?
One year isn't enough; three years is probably too much. Two sounds like a good middle to me.
Now, how would one go about getting documented experience? I think figuring this out will be the biggest hurdle...
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
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