February 24, 2008 at 7:49 am
Andy Warren wrote an article about management. It is the career move for many senior DBAs and SQL developers. In most cases, many companies promoted senior programmers or DBAs to become the manager.
Here are some of the questions or some of my thoughts. What if you just want to stay in technical field, and the company promoted your co-worker to be the manager. It just happens that co-worker is the one you do not get along. You feel that person does not have the skills to be the manager, actually that person is not even a good developer. What is your reaction? In most cases, each DBA or SQL developer always works on own project, if you don't like the co-worker, you don't really need to deal with that person. But when the co-worker become your manager, you have no way out.
A bad manager is a nightmare to the developers or DBAs. What about a bad co-worker, does that work affect your work?
I just read an article from a magazine, according to the study of University of California in Davis, if women had a bad boss or co-worker in the previous job, usually they would use that to predict the future. It was very easy for them to snapshot someone in the new job that the same thing would happen again. It would take double the effect to have an open mind for those women.
After I read that article, I feel liked I am doomed since I had bad boss and bad co-workers in my last three jobs!!!!!!
February 24, 2008 at 9:23 am
Loner (2/24/2008)
I feel liked I am doomed...
And, that is your ONLY problem... you must use your (if I may) God-gifted intelligence to overcome such problems and realize that you are doomed only if you think you are. Snap out of the gloom and doom mode, Loner. Be somebody! I know you can do it... and stop judging others based on "previous experience"... there's a lot of good people out there if you give them the chance... some of them are even managers. With managers, you must "earn your stripes" and sometimes it takes a bit but it's not that hard to do.
So, I take it from your post that you don't actually care for your new job? How's that going?
--Jeff Moden
February 24, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I work from home and this is my first time. I was hoping it would help me to get away from all the company gossips and politics. But it feels lonely sometimes.
The job is fine actually quite challenging. The company is using 2005 so I have to learn it fast. Also it is a small company and it has about 30 people. So far I only met 5 of them. The company is doing e-commerce and it is using Microsoft commerce server. It has a whole bunch of web programmers and never has SQL server DBA or developers. Lately they found out they needed someone good at database so they hired me as the DBA, developer and data architect. For God sake, the database is a mess and the web programmers put in all embedded SQL in the web programs so I have no idea what is going on when something goes wrong. It does not have good security, every server (development or production) has only SA sign on. I just looked at the some of the procedures, they had cursor within cursors within cursors. I am in the middle of rewriting some of them.
Also I have to design the database model for new project but I don't know their web programs so it makes it hard.
I feel a little bit overwhelm now especially I am THE only one working on database.
February 24, 2008 at 9:26 pm
So... you know what to do, Loner... take control...
--Jeff Moden
February 25, 2008 at 8:13 am
Jeff hit it on the head. You have to take control and give people a chance.
There are lots of average managers out there, mostly they'll leave you alone. There are some good ones, a few great ones, and a few horrible ones that pick on you and can try to ruin every day. If you run into them, and it sounds like you did, all you can do is get out of the job.
Embrace the new job, be happy, try to make things work. Be more social, even if it's not with people at work, go to lunch with people or coffee, and break up your days.
And enjoy the challenge.
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February 25, 2008 at 9:47 am
Loner (2/24/2008)
Andy Warren wrote an article about management. It is the career move for many senior DBAs and SQL developers. In most cases, many companies promoted senior programmers or DBAs to become the manager.Here are some of the questions or some of my thoughts. What if you just want to stay in technical field, and the company promoted your co-worker to be the manager. It just happens that co-worker is the one you do not get along. You feel that person does not have the skills to be the manager, actually that person is not even a good developer. What is your reaction? In most cases, each DBA or SQL developer always works on own project, if you don't like the co-worker, you don't really need to deal with that person. But when the co-worker become your manager, you have no way out.
A bad manager is a nightmare to the developers or DBAs. What about a bad co-worker, does that work affect your work?
I just read an article from a magazine, according to the study of University of California in Davis, if women had a bad boss or co-worker in the previous job, usually they would use that to predict the future. It was very easy for them to snapshot someone in the new job that the same thing would happen again. It would take double the effect to have an open mind for those women.
After I read that article, I feel liked I am doomed since I had bad boss and bad co-workers in my last three jobs!!!!!!
Hi, Loner. One thing that might help is to think about that co-worker and what makes them a "bad" co-worker. What is it about this particular person that makes them hard to get along with? Is it the same thing that made your prior co-workers hard to get along with? Are they impolite? Incompotent? Do they harass you? In what way?
Once you have listed out the things that make them hard to get along with, examine them to determine if there is anything you can do about them. For example, if you feel that they are rude to you, do you think it's deliberate or could it be simply that they way they express themselves appears rude to you? It may be that they have no idea that their way of presenting themselves is rubbing you the wrong way. If that's the case, just saying something like "I'm not sure I understood that, did you mean..." will clear things up and help you understand one another better in the future. At the very least you will get a better feel for what's going on in their head. One of several things might happen: 1) they will change the way the approach you, 2) they won't change the way they phrase things but you will know that they are not being mean, or 3) you will know that they ARE being mean and that they don't like you, either, and why.
As far as reacting to their promotion, if the person has been at the company longer than I have and I have no management aspirations then I would just accept that the person was promoted whether or not they have the skills. This is especially true at such a small company. The important thing is to understand that you can control only your own attitude and actions.
It IS possible to manage your manager by working with him or her to understand their expectations of you (and to help set them). You also need to work together to set your expectations of them. It is, after all, a two way street. You might find that the person isn't so bad after all or that you can at least tolerate them once you get to know them better. At worst, if you can't develop a reasonable working relationship now then you might as well start looking for another job.
I would be interested in reading the study you mentioned. Do you have a link for it or Google search parameters? I'd like to read the study and understand their basis for making such an assertion.
February 25, 2008 at 12:51 pm
the database is a mess and the web programmers put in all embedded SQL in the web programs so I have no idea what is going on when something goes wrong. It does not have good security, every server (development or production) has only SA sign on. I just looked at the some of the procedures, they had cursor within cursors within cursors. I am in the middle of rewriting some of them
.
Loner as I see it you have multiple educational challenges. First of all set a schedule to work at the office at least one day a week and:
1). Each visit to the office sit down with one or more of the developers and ask them what their web applications are meant to do, and what T-SQL statements they are using. .
2). Analyze the developers T-SQL. Figure out if you can rewrite it as a SP. Rewrite it - test it.
-- 1 & 2 are for your education
3). Teach the developers how to use SPs and why they should - hopefully the SPs you have written will run faster than their dynamic T-SQL. Show them the results.
4). Give the developers the tools and training so they can write their own SPs.
Ditto for security concerns, just replace developer with manager, SPs with security issues.
February 25, 2008 at 3:52 pm
DonaldW, I read the article from SELF magazine about woman having trouble to let go of bad manager experience.
A few years ago, I landed a job and this was the first time I used SQL Server. Before that I was an Oracle developer. I was naive or the people in that company had the same thought, what would be so different between Oracle and SQL Server? Besides SQL is SQL. Of course no one would send me to any training because I already had database experience. SQL server was not the same as Oracle. The people in that company were very rude and unprofessional. The first day I went to work I asked the DBA a question, he told me to look up Books online, he did not have time to due with developer question. I did not know what was 'books online'. From then on my life was hell. He and his brother (a SQL Server developer) verbally abused me almost everyday. No matter what I did, it was not right or it was not good enough. One time I had to write a procedure to run on Monday to report previous week's data. They said it was not good enough and I could not put in production. I had to rewrite so the report could run from Monday to Sunday and it still knew to report previous week's data and the following Monday would start to report new data. One time I submitted something to put in production, the DBA asked for backup and restore scripts. There was such thing before and he said he just thought about it yesterday. When I asked what I needed to do. He just said ' Write something and if I don't like it, I will let you know!' After I was hired, they hired another developer and one DBA. The developer stayed for 4 months and quited. The new DBA fought his way and he even reported to HR and ended up getting fired. I was there for two years. My whole confidence was gone. I began to feel I could not do anything. Eventually my doctor told me to stop working because I was having a nervous breakdown.
I never told anyone. Everyone thinks that I have a problem with co-workers and managers. Yes. It happened right after that job.
Before that I was fine working with anyone.
February 25, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Loner, if someone gets promoted, give them a chance at it. I once had someone who worked under one of my subordinates who was just barely competent at his own job. My direct subordinate had to leave for several weeks and his barely competent worker was forced to step up into his place until he returned.
He surprised us all by doing quite well. I would like to think it was my marvelous leadership as he reported directly to me for a while, but in real life I think it was the jolt of suddenly having more responsibility that got him working harder and achieving more. Some people will surprise you by rising to the challenge and doing well when that challenge is given to them. Incidentally, he continued performing better than previously when my direct subordinate, his boss, returned.
Also, keep in mind you may think he is bad, but the management obviously sees something in him. At a bare minimum, they are saying he is the best they can get at that price range and they are willing to accept that. Unless you also think that his bosses are incompetent, then maybe they are seeing something you aren't and he is either not as bad as you think or at least has the potential to be better that they are seeing.
Finally, as others have pointed out, you are in control of your own destiny. Do the best you can with what you have, and if your boss is truly that insufferable then it is time to dust off the resume.
---
Timothy A Wiseman
SQL Blog: http://timothyawiseman.wordpress.com/
February 26, 2008 at 6:03 am
Some very good replies here...
Like some others here, I have no aspirations for management after seeing what they actually do (BORING!). I have an MBA and MS in Comp Science, so they naturally think I'm management-material when I interview for a job (contract or perm). I quickly set that record straight. I'm content being a technical worker.
Remember that your boss is your boss is your boss. What that means is that they have the power to make your life miserable, but they can also be helpful. I have worked for my share of bad managers like everyone has. You have to figure out a managers style, what they want and don't want (details or just the summary, verbal or everything in writing, daily report or just at the end of the week or month) and then give them these things. Nothing perturbs them more than to give them one thing, when they want another. It may be your style to send a status report that details everything, but if a manager doesn't want to wade thru that, they won't like it. Adjust accordingly.
Since it is your boss, that person generally has the last word on EVERYTHING. Right or wrong, you have to go with it, but not without at least a rebuttal. If you don't agree with the manager, let's say on a technical subject, then present to that person what you think is the best solution and why (hard facts, not opinions). If they still don't like your idea, at least you staked your claim. This is truly better than just keeping your mouth shut and letting the boss do something stupid. A truly smart boss will recognize when they are not the expert and rely on the real experts in the organization, and will appreciate you saving their butt from doing something stupid (which is good for no one). The rest, you just got to let them make their messes and then help clean it up (you know it will fall back to you to do that).
Correct or not, you have the play the game and help the boss. Feed them your ideas and make them sound like the bosses ideas. At least that way the right thing will get done even if you don't ultimately get the credit that is due.
And finally, always remember, THIS TOO SHALL PASS! Nothing is permanent.
HTH...good luck!
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it!;)
February 26, 2008 at 6:17 am
Loner (2/25/2008)
DonaldW, I read the article from SELF magazine about woman having trouble to let go of bad manager experience.A few years ago, I landed a job and this was the first time I used SQL Server. Before that I was an Oracle developer. I was naive or the people in that company had the same thought, what would be so different between Oracle and SQL Server? Besides SQL is SQL. Of course no one would send me to any training because I already had database experience. SQL server was not the same as Oracle. The people in that company were very rude and unprofessional. The first day I went to work I asked the DBA a question, he told me to look up Books online, he did not have time to due with developer question. I did not know what was 'books online'. From then on my life was hell. He and his brother (a SQL Server developer) verbally abused me almost everyday. No matter what I did, it was not right or it was not good enough. One time I had to write a procedure to run on Monday to report previous week's data. They said it was not good enough and I could not put in production. I had to rewrite so the report could run from Monday to Sunday and it still knew to report previous week's data and the following Monday would start to report new data. One time I submitted something to put in production, the DBA asked for backup and restore scripts. There was such thing before and he said he just thought about it yesterday. When I asked what I needed to do. He just said ' Write something and if I don't like it, I will let you know!' After I was hired, they hired another developer and one DBA. The developer stayed for 4 months and quited. The new DBA fought his way and he even reported to HR and ended up getting fired. I was there for two years. My whole confidence was gone. I began to feel I could not do anything. Eventually my doctor told me to stop working because I was having a nervous breakdown.
I never told anyone. Everyone thinks that I have a problem with co-workers and managers. Yes. It happened right after that job.
Before that I was fine working with anyone.
Loner, thanks for the magazine reference. I'd like to read that article.
That was a really bad experience for you. I can relate because I spent a year in hell working with a psychotic bully. When people found out that I was going to be on this project with her they almost sent me sympathy cards. I ended up in therapy for a while. However, I didn't generalize what happened to me with her to my other relationships.
Don't let bad experiences make you believe that you will always have bad experiences otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Try to start off each relationship fresh with no expectations or pre-judgements. Being a bit reserved until you get to know someone isn't a bad thing, just don't assume the worst from the beginning. I've known more than one person who rubbed me the wrong way when we first met who turned out to be great to work with and a few who seemed great at the start but turned into real demons. (The one I referred to earlier was like that.)
Good luck. I hope things work out for you.
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