July 29, 2004 at 1:50 am
Hi All,
Please advice, can i use third party backup software available in market to backup SQL server database rather then using the SQL backup? Will it have any restore issues/problems when using this type of backup?
Thanks.
July 29, 2004 at 5:32 am
There are a bunch of different softwares out there i.e. Veritas Backup EXEC, Veritas NetBackup, Tripoli (I think), Harbor, etc.. I even think one of the sponsors here is SQL LiteSpeed or was I think.
The only problem would be the WHAT IF's What IF the backup failed and SQL still shows Backup running...
What IF the backup failed and the system is critical to be backed up daily, hourly, whatever..
What IF the software LOCKS the database until it is done and no one can work (some backup software used to do this. Don't know if they still do)
What IF the software is EXPENSIVE vs. the free backup that comes with SQL.
Forgot this part.. To restore from the 3rd party I believe you would need to use the 3rd party software and not sql restore. Depending on the system could cause delays from restoring over the LAN or maybe even user problems. Probably not because all these companies do this daily.
If your company already has a tool and they want to consolidate backups to a single system for monitoring or whatever you can use OSQL to kick a SQL job off that the 3rd party scheduler can monitor (currently testing this option. We are moving to CA-7 to schedule ALL mainframe/windows jobs)
Just a few things off the top of my head to consider
Good Hunting!
AJ Ahrens
webmaster@kritter.net
July 29, 2004 at 7:00 am
#1 SQL Server Backup commands work. They will ALWAYS work with SQL Server. PERIOD.
#2 There is 3rd Party backup software that works just fine (for now) with SQL Server. They may continue to work when there are changes/upgrades to SQL Server - but they may not. Do you want to take the chance?
#3 I know this is true for Veritas' Backup Exec and may be true for other 3rd party softwares...the 3rd party software may require the purchase of an Agent/Option for it to backup SQL Server. So not only do you have to pay for the backup software, you have to pay additional fees to enable it to backup SQL Server.
Real Life Example: My company bought Veritas Backup Exec 8.6 from a reseller (the company that sold us the hardware). We also got the Agent for SQL Server. I was happily backing up SQL Server, but I could never test the Restore (we don't have a test system and management would not allow me to do it on the production system). Time passes. The system crashes and I have to restore from tape. OOOPPPPSSS. Neither Veritas nor the reseller ever told me that there was an issue with BE 8.6 and the SQL Server setup we had. And the issue had been known about BEFORE we purchased Backup Exec. Long story short - I had to send my tapes to Veritas for recovery (the Reseller paid for it). However, it took them 6 weeks to get the recovered tapes back to me. Acceptable? NO. Since that day I do all my backups using the 'native' BACKUP commands. Then I use third party software to COPY the backup files to tape.
Bottom line, in my opinion the SQL Server commands work fine and will always work - why make it harder and use something that may not work tomorrow?
-SQLBill
July 29, 2004 at 7:02 am
Our experience with the Enterprise Backups (backups that work on many platforms, plus they have a SQL Agent) is that they are slow, intrusive and buggy, but that's just our experience.
Better way, if you can afford the space, is to backup local with native MS SQL backup, then use the normal NT Enterprise Backup to come along and get those files "offline".
If you then need speed and space savings, you can go to a product like Lightspeed (VERY reasonable price), for relatively easy integration with 50-80% reduction in space and 30-50% reduction in backup time. And you'll get it.
Not to be a shill or anything but I find it rare in this biz that a 3rd party add-on WORKS as advertised. We have had excellent success with this product and the all-important recovery works the same as with MS.
Good Luck!
July 29, 2004 at 10:26 am
Most third-party backup software uses the VDI specification provided by Microsoft to perform backups and restores. This is basically an interface where SQL Server passes blocks of backup data to an application and says 'Here you go, this is part of the backup data. Do whatever you need with it, and get back to me when you're done.'.
You are free to do whatever you want with the data. You could just as easily download the VDI specs from Microsoft and try out the samples yourself, and even write your own custom backup and restore apps from there. Thus, the third party backup software are not using any undocumented features or hacks to perform the backups/restores.
As vendors, we try to add as much value-added features not found in the standard SQL Server backup options as we can. For e.g. our software, MiniSQLBackup, offers the following 'extras':
SQL BAK Explorer - read SQL Server backup file details without SQL Server.
Supports backup files created with SQL Server 2005 up to SQL Server 2017.
July 29, 2004 at 11:24 am
I'd like to add my comments to Peter Yeoh's.
3rd party vendor products can be awesome. As Peter points out, vendors usually add features that may improve upon the original. Consider that MS SQL Server Backup commands are a Toyota Camry - basic vehicle which will get you where you are going. Now the 3rd party backup software could be considered a Lexus - still gets you where you are going, but now you get there in style. Is one better than the other? That's up to you and what you need.
Things to remember...Microsoft writes their software and sends it out (upgrades, whatever). The 3rd party vendors have to then take that code and figure out how to incorporate it into their product and then get it to you. That can take a while. Will "Brand X" backup software work when you next upgrade/patch your SQL Server? Maybe - probably - but there's a chance it might not. However, if you stick with just SQL Server commands, you miss out on some awesome features (if you need them) - some of which Peter described.
Bottom line is: yes you can use third-party backup software. You might need to purchase an agent/option in addition to the backup software, but you can do it.
Is it the best way to go? That's up to you and your needs.
-SQLBill
July 29, 2004 at 11:48 am
I tend to agree with Bill. SQL Backups just work. Some third parties work better than others, and I've had issues with some. We use Litespeed here (not that it's the best), but it does just work. I have not seen Peter's product, but I do have someone reviewing it and I'd like to see what they think.
As far as Veritas and Backup Exec, I've had issues with both. Not that the product is bad, just my epxeriences.
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July 29, 2004 at 11:15 pm
Hi All,
Thanks for all. I'm new in SQL Server world. As what i understand, we can perform transaction log, file & filegroups backup in MS SQL server backup & restore up to a specific point of time based on the transaction log. Can this be done on third party backup software, for example veritas or arserve?
Thanks.
July 30, 2004 at 7:56 am
It should be able to be done if you are backing up everything iwth the product. You can also backup the data with Veritas (or anything else) and the logs with the native backup.
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July 30, 2004 at 8:55 am
Like Steve Jones, I too have had a negative experience with the Veritas Solution (this was a few years ago, so it may not be relavent at this time), but have moved on to the BMC SQL-Backtrack product which works very well. We have a centralized TSM (formally known as ADSM) system and SQL-Backtrack has a "module" that will send all of the various backups to the TSM system. Not to continue to sound like a commercial, but if you have any junior level DBA's or even an Operations staff, the interface for SQL-Backtrack is intuitive enough for just about anyone to perform any type of database restore (even the master database) without having much knowledge/experience with SQL Server. It walks you thorough the process very well, and will even allow you to script a backup/restore process by creating the script for you.
That's just my opinion ... take it for what it's worth ...
July 30, 2004 at 10:58 am
SQL Native Backups work well as long as you have the disk space and the time to backup large databases. As you know, as databases grow, time and disk considerations become increasingly large. 3rd party compression tools greatly reduce these needs. Yes they do cost extra over the free native tool but when you consider the disk and tape savings, the cost is almost always justified.
Feel free to check out SQL LiteSpeed at http://www.imceda.com and if you have any questions about the product I'd be happy to talk with you.
Jason Hall
July 30, 2004 at 11:35 am
for the last 7 years I have used different 3rd party products - Legato, Veritas 8, 8.6, 9, even the expensive ComVolt Galaxy, and ,of course, the regular SQL backup commands.
First, some of them are very expensive, even if you have to add only the SQL agent. Second, they require more testing on the recovery strategy you have - also costly as man hours. Except that in the chain of event, there's one more thing to failed if you use 3 party - something more to check in the morning...
Something more as you could set up SQL server to e-mail you the outcome of the backup jobs - this is not available for all of the 3 party products. More manual checking daily.
SQL 2000 with the options of datafile and filegroups backups, is compiting successfully with the speed , so much advertized for the 3 party pr. I, personally, have not seen a big difference in the speed. The other consideration is the overhead on the SQL sever itself ...
Currently I use native SQl backup for daily needs and once per week I backup my backup files to tape for off-side storage with the 3 party, but not thru SQL agnet - the chipest way and it works.
Hope thi will help.
MJ
August 3, 2004 at 4:55 am
For anyone who's interested, we have just released MiniSQLBackup Lite, a free version of our popular backup utility for Microsoft SQL Server.
Use this Lite version to create smaller backup files, and in most cases, faster backups. You can restore directly from these backup files, or convert the backup file to a standard SQL Server backup file. Note that the Lite version lacks the advanced features found in the standard version. Visit http://www.yohz.com for a complete feature comparison.
Enjoy.
SQL BAK Explorer - read SQL Server backup file details without SQL Server.
Supports backup files created with SQL Server 2005 up to SQL Server 2017.
August 4, 2004 at 4:33 am
Hi All,
Thanks for all the advice. Thank you very much.
August 17, 2004 at 4:12 am
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