July 1, 2011 at 9:51 am
djackson 22568 (7/1/2011)
. . . I can say, a lot of companies are now having people come in and work without paying them. They sell it as "let's see if we fit for you", when in reality it is free labor. I view it as illegal, but so many people are out of work that they are willing to put up with all kinds of abuse for a job. . . .
This practice is called "internship" and it is legal.
July 1, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Revenant (7/1/2011)
djackson 22568 (7/1/2011)
. . . I can say, a lot of companies are now having people come in and work without paying them. They sell it as "let's see if we fit for you", when in reality it is free labor. I view it as illegal, but so many people are out of work that they are willing to put up with all kinds of abuse for a job. . . .This practice is called "internship" and it is legal.
Yes, and actually pretty common a generation or two ago. Nikola Tesla started out as an apprentice with Thomas Edison... (albeit quickly determined that Edison was ignorant of the benefits of alternating current and moved on.).
Modern generations have changed... all kids are "special", you get a diploma for every grade and can even get a nobel peace prize for raising people's hopes & expectations. But I digress....
The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival.
July 1, 2011 at 2:01 pm
sturner (7/1/2011)
...But I digress...
Wow, now there's an understatement :hehe:
There are no special teachers of virtue, because virtue is taught by the whole community.
--Plato
July 1, 2011 at 2:38 pm
opc.three (7/1/2011)
sturner (7/1/2011)
...But I digress...Wow, now there's an understatement :hehe:
:smooooth: And you sir are an astute observer of hyperbole and dry humor. 😉
The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival.
July 1, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I once interviewed for one of the big national auto insurance providers. Part of the interview process (which lasted all day and mostly involved me sitting and waiting in a series of a half-dozen small rooms) was one of those tests where we were asked scratch off the answer to multiple choice questions with a #2 pencil.
"You can't cook an omelet without breaking some eggs."
- strongly agree
- somewhat agree
- somewhat disagree
- strongly disagree
Having no clue what they're really asking for here, my answer was "somewhat agree", because technically speaking, I can cook an omelet using a carton of pre-separated egg whites rather than whole eggs. Either way, cooking omelets is not a topic I could ever feel strongly about. I decided to play it safe and interpert all 200 similar questions literally rather than colloquially; resonding with either "somewhat agree" or "somewhat disagree".
Near the end of day, I was told that I had already been excluded as a canidate, and I never saw anything resembling a technical or professional interview.
Whatever.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 1, 2011 at 2:53 pm
sturner (7/1/2011)
Freddie-304292 (7/1/2011)
But I know I wouldn't fit in with any company that expected people to come in for a full day interview, and would turn them down flat. Remember you're interviewing the company, too, and if they have such little regard for your time that they'd expect you to give up a whole day for an interview, do you really want to work for them. I wouldn't.
Pretty confident... when you have a job. Lets see if you would still "turn them down flat" if you didn't have a job, or knew you job was going away in 3 months.
In a heartbeat. My contracts usually only last 3-6 months, so I'm always 'in the market'. Unless this was 'final candidate last check make sure' interviewing, and every other i was dotted and t was crossed, yeah, no.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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July 1, 2011 at 10:02 pm
djackson 22568 (7/1/2011)
While it is true that these MAY NOT be opposites, for most managers they are.
I have to disagree with that, as well. I've found that most managers will surround themselves with intelligent people and then let those people do their jobs instead of micro-managing them to death.
--Jeff Moden
July 2, 2011 at 12:49 am
Jeff Moden (7/1/2011)
djackson 22568 (7/1/2011)
While it is true that these MAY NOT be opposites, for most managers they are.I have to disagree with that, as well. I've found that most managers will surround themselves with intelligent people and then let those people do their jobs instead of micro-managing them to death.
I seriously need to find your managers. While I praise the one I currently have, in general, my experience is not this.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
July 2, 2011 at 5:22 am
Craig Farrell (7/2/2011)
Jeff Moden (7/1/2011)
djackson 22568 (7/1/2011)
While it is true that these MAY NOT be opposites, for most managers they are.I have to disagree with that, as well. I've found that most managers will surround themselves with intelligent people and then let those people do their jobs instead of micro-managing them to death.
I seriously need to find your managers. While I praise the one I currently have, in general, my experience is not this.
Likewise. I think by this point I'm pretty much at a 3:1 ratio poor managers to good. I've had a couple of exceptional ones, several average and a few really bad.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 2, 2011 at 8:41 am
To be sure, most managers I've had, even the very good ones, suck when it comes to making promises in the form of schedules. 😛
From what you good folks are saying, I've been pretty lucky with having good managers (my ratio is 5:0 since 2003 good to bad). Maybe it's because I interview the manager I'll be working for as much as (s)he interviews me. Maybe it's my grey beard and the fact that most people figure out very quickly that I'm not in the crap business... I don't give any and I don't take any. Maybe it's because I talk to managers as if they were human instead of my boss. I'm not sure what the cause of my good fortune has been but I aim to keep doing whatever I'm doing because it sounds like I'm very, very fortunate. 😛
--Jeff Moden
July 2, 2011 at 8:59 am
My ratio of good to bad since 2003 is 7 : 2; fortunately, those bad ones were not too bad, and the good ones I turned into my friends.
July 2, 2011 at 11:18 am
I'd say the majority of my managers were just people doing the best they had with the personell they had leveraging the training they'd received. Which usually meant average people dealing with the lowest price for the tasks as assigned by HR with one class a year in how to manage. You can imagine how well that usually goes.
I can only point at 3 managers and go "Please, no, not again." Most were just trying to get the job done.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
July 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm
"Try," as in that famous "Try not: do or do not. There is no try."
Unfortunatly, too many (new) managers just try.
July 2, 2011 at 5:23 pm
"After all, companies lie in interviews almost as much as candidates."
Which makes asking probing questions about the job environment in the interview generally a waste of time, because they are not going to tell you the truth anyway. For example, I have never gotten the real answer from an employer during an interview as to why the prior DBA left the position until after I was hired and a coworker told me. They lie as a matter of policy in most cases. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 3, 2011 at 5:22 pm
TravisDBA (7/2/2011)
. . . I have never gotten the real answer from an employer during an interview as to why the prior DBA left the position until after I was hired and a coworker told me. . . .
If they told you, the previous DBA could sue them for $100k plus legal expenses.
Welcome to today's litigious America. (And that includes both the US and Canada.)
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