A Special Announcement from Andy, Brian, and Steve
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Congratulations guys.
From a community user perspective you were definitely successful.
Hope the bank balances are appropriately flooded and that you each take time to spend with your families and give them some back - because you would definitely have spent some hours on this passion of yours.
Good luck with your future endeavours and I am glad to hear Steve will still be around - with his familiar brand of wisdom.
I'll have a beer or two to celebrate for you.
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Just to agree with SQLBill, no business buys another without an agenda, I've worked for companies who buy companies - believe me, they don't do it for the good of mankind! OK I can see RedGate taking on a popular SQL Server Site, make sure the only advertising is RedGate - that helps eliminate the competition , that's how companies work - but does/did SQL Central have that much impact on the tools market for SQL Server - I have used RedGate's tools and they're pretty good - I was an early adopter many many years ago - but I can't see that the elimination of competitor advertising from one site, even with pressure on other sites, will warrant this move/cost - who knows - but I don't have a good feeling to be honest.
For Andy Steve and Brian , yes good move - fantastic site - that's what it's all about.
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
Congratulations to Steve, Brian and Andy and thanks for the opportunity to advertise with you over the last two years.
When we sought advice about where to advertise – this site was number one. Web-sites like these allow small start up company’s like ours an opportunity to reach the people we need to impress in an affordable manner.
So, we’re sorry to see that go the same way as SQLServerPerformance.com where we are also excluded due to the new owners of SQLServerCentral.com.
So it’s goodbye & good luck from us at Innovartis and DB Ghost.
regards,
Mark Baekdal
Build, Comparison and Synchronization from Source Control = Database change management for SQL Server
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It does sort of make you wonder if discussions of non redgate tools will removed from the site. There can always be other sites!!
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
There are many message boards controlling by some companies. They constantly monitor what people write on the message board. One time I went to one message board, I remembered I opened a thread and I guessed someone did not like it, it was deleted the next day, or sometimes I answered some thread and people did not like my reply, it got deleted.
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I'm willing at this point to give Red-Gate and this site the benefit of the doubt. But it's going to be interesting to see what this site is like in 6 months or so.
-SQLBill
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ICE Cube,
dude, ur skurrin' me!
#1 - I had to try and re-read your post a couple times to figure out the straw man you are trying to create. You seem to be deliberately distorting my point (not to mention deliberately misquoting me) with your exclusive focus on "contract problems". I used this as an *example* to indicate that Red-Gate IS changing the site (hmmmm I wonder why - to help everyone right?). This is just the start. IF they didn't want to change anything, just wanted to "keep it like it is" for the joy and amusement of folks like yourself - then I guess their first act wouldn't be to bust contracts would it? Or change the "standards" they will implement. So try to breathe in the big picture here my bad karma avoiding, non-electron wasting friend
#2 - you state (a bit to emphatically I might add) that Red-Gate has done nothing un-ethical, etc, etc, etc, etc. Well, failing to disclose the true motives of this purchase IS unethical. Failing to fully disclose their new "standards" IS unethical. Busting people's contracts also IS unethical (although I realize you don't care but it begins to form a pattern, see?). Posing as a benefactor of the community when you have waged a multi-year effort to suppress information IS unethical.
#3 - your solution (in your first post) is for my company (and I guess everyone else) to go find other media outlets to purchase outright as well. I think this is probably the worst possible outcome (not to mention just a plain bad idea) - let's divvy up these formerly independent news sites as our own personal militias - each with our our agenda that we'll foist on the communities. Great idea!
#4 - I don't think my "competition" (RG in this case) is too competitive at all - I think RG is fundamentally anti-competitive (which is kind of the opposite) and is the gist of my point which you totally fail to grasp. In fact Red-Gate is getting clobbered in the tool space (check out Log Rescue for example or the new SQL doc (reminds me of our tool 2 years ago)) - we've converted hundreds of their customers in our completive upgrade program in the last few month's alone (that you soon won't be able to learn about here - thanks to Red-Gate censorship) http://www.apexsql.com/upgrades.asp And new companies like Idera Change Mgr and SQLAccessories have much better diff technology than RG and began to advertise heavily on this site (oops - not any more!). So rather than compete with the best product - why not suppress the information?! And in just the nick of time.
It's Red-Gate's inability to compete in the marketplace that is leading them to close off information to the community. This is ANTI-competitive - your efforts to cheerlead it notwithstanding. apparently they have decided it's more cost effective to control information flow than produce superior software. if this is successful for them they may be right!
As the owner of DBGhost alludes to - he his prevented from advertising diff tools on sql-server-performance since RG paid sql-server-performance to not run any banners that compete with their tools. Now although I'm sure YOU think that's great. Most people think it's bad business. Other vendors (like me) lose out of course (smaller ones are hurt much more than I am). But mostly the community loses out (those are the sql dbas you are pretending to advocate for)
Bottom Line
Bottom line is this is a bad deal for the SQL Server community - whether you think we are all "good as gold" or not. Independent news outlets hijacked by organizations with a conflict of interest and an agenda contrary to a free flow of objective information is bad. Unless you are living in communist Cuba - or are a devotee of Fox News - most would agree.
Real Issues
Why not talk about the real issues here?
1) Should Red-Gate disclose their true motives for this (or are we supposed to drink Red Kool-Aid?). Where is the statement of their "new standards"?
2) Is suppressing information - any information (in the form of advertising or otherwise) good or bad? And does it matter who has the power to suppress it?
3) Who is going to assure us Steve get's total editorial control - you? and how will it be verified? If something is censored - how will we know? Will you tell us - maybe in a rap? In fact censorship is silent. Nobody knows when something is pulled except when guys like me tell you. And of course when people do complain of censorship - your retort will be "sour grapes" "that's business", "quit complaining".
Who get's hurt?
ApexSQL is hurt - no doubt. But I've got a media machine, marketing people etc. We get thousands of visitors and move tons of software. We'll survive and prosper long after this bad deal is swept under the carpet because we have many media outlets. But I've had 6 years to grow. I needed this space to get the word out originally. Who really suffers are the smaller vendors who really needed an independent venue like this to connect with the community. They CAN'T sue people, buy websites - or otherwise follow your sage advice of "competing" - they ain't got the green. They CAN'T drop $8k for a page in MSDN mag. If RG is successful these companies will be silenced from all of the sql websites. there is only one major one left not censored - and who knows how long this will last.
Take Action
Once again people - stop, think, consider and fight for your community. Brian, Andy and Steve founded this site but you built it with thousands of posts, articles, email feedback, subscriptions - don't give up your rights/freedom to independent information which you have earned by contributing to this site. Once lost it will be impossible to get back. Demand some real information and answers - not just platitudes.
You have a vote - don't subsidize the mass market media empire of Red-Gate by purchasing their tools as long as they are systematically undermining the sql community and suppressing information about alternatives. There are many alternatives to their tools - although you won't be seeing them here anymore!
Here is another guy "raining on the parade!" http://weblog.infoworld.com/dbunderground/archives/2006/11/redgates_acquis.html
Brian Lockwood
President
ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials -
Congrats to Steve, Andy, and Brian. You've been responsible for creating the best MS SQL site on the t'Intermaweb, so congrats on your success
As for the future? For me, it's a wait-and-see game as to what will change. Less advertising is fine (I know how to use Google to find products), but if by less they actually mean "more focussed on Red Gate products" then there may be a problem. But, advertising isn't my real concern, it's editorial independence. I don't want reviews of products to be slanted towards saying Red Gate is best, for example. Like I said, wait-and-see.
And to Brian Lockwood, it seems that your posts on this subject haven't been censored yet. Right? So, that's something
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For those who may be interested, I just spoke to Mr. Lockwood and I think we may be closer to seeing eye-to-eye on the whole thing. When I posted my response I didn't know the whole situation and I may have come off harsh and insensitive in my response, and for that I apologize.
Those who know me know that I tend to speak what's on my mind, and rarely take back what I have to say (gets me in a lot of trouble). In this case though, I've taken the extra step of retracting my previous comments to Mr. Lockwood. Now that I understand where he's coming from, I have a better understanding of his concerns.
I hope ApexSQL and the other software vendors out there who were affected by the SSC buy-out the best of luck in finding new marketing opportunities for their fine products.
BTW, I don't rap free homie
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My "Beef" with Mike C
I just spoke with Mike C on the phone. He had a reply "locked and loaded" but instead picked up the phone and we hashed it out - I have tremendous respect for that.
In the course of the conversation we found we had more in common that different. We're both veterans of the U.S. Military and share a love of rap. http://www.apexsql.com/blog/2006/01/hate-it-or-love-it-free-tools-for-sql.htm
Mike's tone was constructive right from the start and I appreciated his perspective, comments to me. I also gave him some additional context and background which helped him understand where I was coming from. By the end of the conversation I feel our perspectives were a lot closer.
We agreed to continue the conversation and based on Mike's skills (rhetorical and otherwise) - we might be doing some biz'ness real soon. Stay tuned! Props to Mike for taking the initiative to turning this bad karma into something positive.
I read now as I post this Mike has apologized. I appreciate this and in turn, would apologize for a few extra shots that I could have holstered and the content directed at Mike personally. from my short conversation with him - he's a straight talking guy - like me. We need more of that - not less.
Brian Lockwood
President
ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials -
Time for a group hug then ?!?!
Mike - having "known" you for some considerable length, your tone did surprise me a bit...but looks like you reverted back to the fair-minded Mike we all respect..all's well that...
ps:Really think that Steve should do one of his surveys on how effective advertising is for sales...have heard more than a few people say (on this thread alone) that they usually google for their products/shopping and don't really pay heed to the marketing done via SSC...
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Maybe a group beer
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Good to see you guys sort it out. Proves there is still hope in this world for people who can communicate honestly.
As for that group beer, can you send one down to li'l ol me in NZ. I's just getting thirsty - and it's only tuesday afternoon
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I just found out about the Red-Gate purchase of SQLservercentral.com. I have not had the time to go through all the comments. So please forgive me if some of my comments have been voiced before.
While I truly believe in the free market powers of doing business, a takeover of a public site by a company or firm leaves an impression of an attempt to corner the market, especially when it involves a site like SQLservercentral.com.
It's been said elsewhere that this has multiple remifications, but most of all throttles the effectiveness of everything that goes into SQLservercentral.com from now on. The fact that the site is now owned by a corporation makes it an extension of that entity and by definition a place that is less geared toward a free community.
It will be interesting to see how things pan out. I for one will most likely start looking for other sources of unbiased oppinions about SQL Server tools and will start viewing SQLservercentral.com as a 'support forum' for Red-Gate products.
We have lost something valuable and I'm not so sure the public has been done a service with this aquisition.
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First, I am the Creator/Developer of ApexSQL Edit, so you can take my comments from that perspective.
I have been a long time reader of SSC articles and have found them to usually be informative and helpful. However, I do have some concerns about the future of the site being under owned by a particular vendor since regardless of someone's desire to be impartial, it is always hard to bite the hand that feeds.
I still plan to use SSC and I think the articles dealing solely with SQL related issues will probably continue to be free of bias, I do think any review of a RG or non-RG product should have a disclaimer that indicates the possible conflict of interest.
I hope this site continues to help and serve the SQL Server community without bias and with the same level of quality they have in the past.
Ashton Hobbs
ApexSQL Edit (Creator/Developer)
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