July 30, 2014 at 8:01 am
Lynn Pettis (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from. 😛
So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?:Whistling:
The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.
I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?
Glad you like SO.
I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.
Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.
But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.
Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.
Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy 😉
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here :-P) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.
Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not 😀 But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.
I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.
So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.
I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.
Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?
Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that 😛
July 30, 2014 at 8:12 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from. 😛
So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?:Whistling:
The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.
I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?
Glad you like SO.
I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.
Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.
But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.
Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.
Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy 😉
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here :-P) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.
Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not 😀 But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.
I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.
So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.
I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.
Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?
Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that 😛
First, for running totals I may have also pointed them to the Quirky Update method (Jeff Moden as a wonderful article on it and the discussion following it adds more information) as it (when done following ALL the rules) will blow the doors off a cursor.
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.
July 30, 2014 at 8:25 am
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.
And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
July 30, 2014 at 8:32 am
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.
I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 30, 2014 at 8:41 am
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/28/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/28/2014)
Ed Wagner (7/28/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/27/2014)
Jeff Moden (7/26/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/26/2014)
But the BS around rep just sucks.That might be where the word "Overflow" comes from. 😛
So they named it stack overflow because it is really just Diarrhea?:Whistling:
The last time I checked out stack overflow, it was just that. Maybe it got better since then, but I don't use it for anything so I wouldn't know.
I like Stack Overflow, they've done a great job, I've lost count over the answers I've gotten there. I'm not saying they're perfect, but the amount of loathing they get from you guys is just not proportionate to any actual problems over there that I can see, so I'm wondering what the real deal is? Did they treat some of you in a manner that was determined to be below your expectations or something? Not fawn over the 5 digit SSC rep or something?
Glad you like SO.
I have seen roughly 50% of the answers to be wrong over there. You can't fix that unless you have asked a question. Why ask a question just to get rep? All that says is the rep is a game to play.
Rep is worthless. SSC points are worthless and I could really care less about that stuff because it doesn't translate to anything for anybody else.
But why take this to the personal attack level? I didn't see anybody attack you personally or directly. People reading the series of entries should be able to understand that it is good natured fun. If that is not obvious enough, then I apologize for the word assimilation.
Good grief, the ol "personal attack" meme again. Thats fine, have at it.
Well, if you don't like that meme, don't get personal. It's quite easy 😉
Your posts could be read as we're all a bunch of old grumpy SSC fanatics (mostly true for most people here :-P) who like to take a dump on the new shiny kid on the block, SO.
Well thats true, you guys could take it personally. After all, it IS your posts being held up for examination. For every post I replied to, they were at one time posted by someone, and maybe nothing but cheerleading was expected in return, and I can understand that. I'm certainly grasping for motivations for these posts also, so theres that. "Attack"? Well, although I don't think its necessarily a valid characterization, I don't think the characterizations of SO were worthy of posting on here either, so theres that.
Personally I don't think any of "us" is jealous over SO. SSC is a totally different site - a forum - while SO is a Q&A site with same "gamification". Here at SSC discussions are encouraged, advice is given and people can be mentored. At SO, well euhm, not 😀 But SO is great for straightforward questions and answers, where not too much debate is necessary.
I think that SO wants to be great for straightforward questions and answers, thats pretty much their mission.
So it's okay to perpetuate inefficient or poor coding techniques, or in the case of SQL Server techniques that could provide erroneous or inconsistent results or won't scale well in the face of increased data and/or users. I'm sorry, but if I am asking how to do something like write a cursor and some one tells me there may be a better way without using cursors, please show me. If there is a better way to write something in C# than the way I have done it, again show me. Don't let me continue on down the road of mediocrity, help make me better and more efficient in the code I write.
I remember one question about "running totals" and it had as an answer a great rundown on the various solutions, and the consensus was that the cursor was probably best (I think it was for server 2008) for reasons that were in addition to pure speed of execution. Would you guys have liked that answer, probably not. Does that make it incorrect? No, because a cursor can be used to produce a running total.
Can SO prevent incorrect information. Probably not, and I'm going to suggest a few things here, #1, you probably need to check information you get from unverified sources, #2, Stack Exchange is so big they're not going to be able to verify all sources. Does this scale and result make SO useless? Does it make the web useless?
Now you can handle that divergence of goals, methods and opinions by evaluating some subjective factors in a contemplative fashion or you can hollar "poop." Its all good in my opinion, granted I don't have to come in here pointing and laughing, so I'll work on that 😛
First, for running totals I may have also pointed them to the Quirky Update method (Jeff Moden as a wonderful article on it and the discussion following it adds more information) as it (when done following ALL the rules) will blow the doors off a cursor.
A similar method was actually included in that post (they called it "update in place" or something along those lines), and they talked about whether it was a supported method or not. I know whether something is "supported" (for varying degrees of that word) is probably a subjective conversation in itself, and of course now its probably a mood point with new windowing functions.
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.
Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.
July 30, 2014 at 8:43 am
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.
I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.
I did not have to ask a question in order to answer. The permissions thing there is quite bizarre though. With 0 points I was able to provide an answer but not comment on a question or an answer. Strangely I answered a couple of questions and jumped up in "rep" pretty fast.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
July 30, 2014 at 8:47 am
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.
I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.
I did not have to ask a question in order to answer. The permissions thing there is quite bizarre though. With 0 points I was able to provide an answer but not comment on a question or an answer. Strangely I answered a couple of questions and jumped up in "rep" pretty fast.
Yeah, I've tried quite a few times (last time was about 2 months ago) and get the same response every time that I must have rep to post an answer.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 30, 2014 at 8:52 am
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.
I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.
I did not have to ask a question in order to answer. The permissions thing there is quite bizarre though. With 0 points I was able to provide an answer but not comment on a question or an answer. Strangely I answered a couple of questions and jumped up in "rep" pretty fast.
Yeah, I've tried quite a few times (last time was about 2 months ago) and get the same response every time that I must have rep to post an answer.
Well that is just plain stupid. I only signed up for an account in the last couple weeks. I did not need rep to post an answer. I just double checked and my history says I have asked 0 questions. According to the privileges list you only need 1 point to post a question or an answer and when I signed up I got a 1 point for creating an account.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
July 30, 2014 at 8:55 am
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
SQLRNNR (7/30/2014)
Sean Lange (7/30/2014)
Lynn Pettis (7/30/2014)
Second, it comes down to using the right tool for the job and learning what those tools are and how to use them. If all you do is just answer the question then you aren't helping the person to learn about other tools and to be able to determine when each tool is appropriate.And that is the fundamental difference between the two sites. Here we try to teach so people become better. That is our culture on this site and what we try to achieve. SO is a different place. The culture there is to provide an answer quickly even if the approach is not the best. I think the point system at SO somewhat drives that but that is just the way it is.
Honestly I don't one is right and one is wrong. It is just a different approach.
Yup, different systems. And a fair enough argument has been made in support of SO.
I don't think that will change anything for me. I don't feel like asking some sort of fluff question just so I can get rep in order to start posting answers. And I don't think I will post a question there that says "Please upvote just so I can get rep." Both approaches would be a disservice.
I did not have to ask a question in order to answer. The permissions thing there is quite bizarre though. With 0 points I was able to provide an answer but not comment on a question or an answer. Strangely I answered a couple of questions and jumped up in "rep" pretty fast.
Yeah, I've tried quite a few times (last time was about 2 months ago) and get the same response every time that I must have rep to post an answer.
Well that is just plain stupid. I only signed up for an account in the last couple weeks. I did not need rep to post an answer. I just double checked and my history says I have asked 0 questions. According to the privileges list you only need 1 point to post a question or an answer and when I signed up I got a 1 point for creating an account.
Very odd indeed.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 30, 2014 at 9:05 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.
While I don't recommend going back and re-reading this insane thread, if you were to (again, don't bother), you'd find that we can be pretty self-critical at times as well. This thread has been used to call out bad behavior in general or even in particular to the people who occupy it. Are most of us the top posters on the site? Yeah. What's that worth? That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee. But we try hard to police the site to maintain a ourselves as one of the best places to go for information on SQL Server (not the only, and not the single best, one of, which includes SO).
Is there criticism of SO/SE at times? Yeah, but let's face it, SO/SE is not perfect. It's good. It can be useful. But it's not the be all and end all. I'd say the exact same thing about us. We're absolutely far from perfect. But we're good. We can be useful. But we're not the be all and end all.
Early in this discussion the people who posted some sophomoric comments (and I suspect everyone is guilty of this at one point or another, the gods know I am) about SO apologized, but you really seem to be carrying a torch on this one. I'm just not sure why. You can read back through all the quotes. In many places people have said that SO fills a need and does it well, but... Is it the "but" aspect that is carrying you so hard down this road. I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
Oh, for what it's worth, about the same as my standing on this site, I'm in the top 46% at SO and top 12% at the Exchange site Database Administrators. So I don't feel like my rep is suffering horribly over there. It's just not a place I choose to hang out (and, I think the moderators can be rude).
Some people are going to like SO/SE less than you do. That's OK. Same goes the other way.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
July 30, 2014 at 9:22 am
Grant Fritchey (7/30/2014)
Early in this discussion the people who posted some sophomoric comments
Let's just call a spade a spade. Yes my comment was less than mature, but I think sophomoric is a bit too kind. I might call my comment a bit "jr high".;-)
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
July 30, 2014 at 9:48 am
Grant Fritchey (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.While I don't recommend going back and re-reading this insane thread, if you were to (again, don't bother), you'd find that we can be pretty self-critical at times as well. This thread has been used to call out bad behavior in general or even in particular to the people who occupy it. Are most of us the top posters on the site? Yeah. What's that worth? That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee. But we try hard to police the site to maintain a ourselves as one of the best places to go for information on SQL Server (not the only, and not the single best, one of, which includes SO).
Is there criticism of SO/SE at times? Yeah, but let's face it, SO/SE is not perfect. It's good. It can be useful. But it's not the be all and end all. I'd say the exact same thing about us. We're absolutely far from perfect. But we're good. We can be useful. But we're not the be all and end all.
Early in this discussion the people who posted some sophomoric comments (and I suspect everyone is guilty of this at one point or another, the gods know I am) about SO apologized, but you really seem to be carrying a torch on this one. I'm just not sure why. You can read back through all the quotes. In many places people have said that SO fills a need and does it well, but... Is it the "but" aspect that is carrying you so hard down this road. I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
It doesn't need to be all that important that YOU folks acknowledge the usefulness, for all that matters its not even that important that I can come here and protest in favor of that site.
If you think its "carrying me so hard down this road", then maybe it IS important that I DO NOT come here and protest in favor of the site and thats fine. its a sore subject here, and certainly I don't need to come in here and ruin the watercooler for you guys.
These subjects are interesting to me, but they're not mandatory by any means.
I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
Thats really more like "why is it so important that Patrick chat at the water cooler" and you're right, I shouldn't be so invested in it.
July 30, 2014 at 9:58 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Grant Fritchey (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.While I don't recommend going back and re-reading this insane thread, if you were to (again, don't bother), you'd find that we can be pretty self-critical at times as well. This thread has been used to call out bad behavior in general or even in particular to the people who occupy it. Are most of us the top posters on the site? Yeah. What's that worth? That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee. But we try hard to police the site to maintain a ourselves as one of the best places to go for information on SQL Server (not the only, and not the single best, one of, which includes SO).
Is there criticism of SO/SE at times? Yeah, but let's face it, SO/SE is not perfect. It's good. It can be useful. But it's not the be all and end all. I'd say the exact same thing about us. We're absolutely far from perfect. But we're good. We can be useful. But we're not the be all and end all.
Early in this discussion the people who posted some sophomoric comments (and I suspect everyone is guilty of this at one point or another, the gods know I am) about SO apologized, but you really seem to be carrying a torch on this one. I'm just not sure why. You can read back through all the quotes. In many places people have said that SO fills a need and does it well, but... Is it the "but" aspect that is carrying you so hard down this road. I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
It doesn't need to be all that important that YOU folks acknowledge the usefulness, for all that matters its not even that important that I can come here and protest in favor of that site.
If you think its "carrying me so hard down this road", then maybe it IS important that I DO NOT come here and protest in favor of the site and thats fine. its a sore subject here, and certainly I don't need to come in here and ruin the watercooler for you guys.
These subjects are interesting to me, but they're not mandatory by any means.
I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
Thats really more like "why is it so important that Patrick chat at the water cooler" and you're right, I shouldn't be so invested in it.
The folks who've commented are those who give a monkeys one way or the other. The silent majority don't. I don't much care for SO/SE. Years ago, around 2004 I think, when I was deciding on a decent source of reference material for SQL Server, I touched SO/SE and SSC and found SSC way more useful because of the discussion, which likely as not pushed the "best method" to the surface. That decision still stands. SSC promotes "best methods", SO/SE don't, and can't. If all you want is a fish for your tea, go to SO/SE, and there's an argument for sending back some of the idle muppets who land here 😀
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Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
July 30, 2014 at 10:09 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Grant Fritchey (7/30/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (7/30/2014)
Its sort of a free market thing, if people decide that SO/SE isn't useful, it could go away. I'm hoping it sticks around because it is really useful in my opinion, its an awesome site with an incredible coverage of subject matter, I've gotten lots of information from their postings. But yes, if people want to hate on it, I need to let that happen too.While I don't recommend going back and re-reading this insane thread, if you were to (again, don't bother), you'd find that we can be pretty self-critical at times as well. This thread has been used to call out bad behavior in general or even in particular to the people who occupy it. Are most of us the top posters on the site? Yeah. What's that worth? That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee. But we try hard to police the site to maintain a ourselves as one of the best places to go for information on SQL Server (not the only, and not the single best, one of, which includes SO).
Is there criticism of SO/SE at times? Yeah, but let's face it, SO/SE is not perfect. It's good. It can be useful. But it's not the be all and end all. I'd say the exact same thing about us. We're absolutely far from perfect. But we're good. We can be useful. But we're not the be all and end all.
Early in this discussion the people who posted some sophomoric comments (and I suspect everyone is guilty of this at one point or another, the gods know I am) about SO apologized, but you really seem to be carrying a torch on this one. I'm just not sure why. You can read back through all the quotes. In many places people have said that SO fills a need and does it well, but... Is it the "but" aspect that is carrying you so hard down this road. I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
It doesn't need to be all that important that YOU folks acknowledge the usefulness, for all that matters its not even that important that I can come here and protest in favor of that site.
If you think its "carrying me so hard down this road", then maybe it IS important that I DO NOT come here and protest in favor of the site and thats fine. its a sore subject here, and certainly I don't need to come in here and ruin the watercooler for you guys.
These subjects are interesting to me, but they're not mandatory by any means.
I'm just trying to understand why it's so important to you personally that we acknowledge the usefulness of SO.
Thats really more like "why is it so important that Patrick chat at the water cooler" and you're right, I shouldn't be so invested in it.
First, we are ALL entitled to our opinions and they are just that, opinions. I honestly prefer the approach taken here at SSC versus SO/SE/AskSSC. As a few have said, it is the discussion that sets this site apart. It allows the OP and those helping to find not just AN answer but the BEST answer. And even that can change over time as one continues to learn more about SQL Server and what is possible.
For many of us on this thread, trying to teach others is very important. We aren't always going to be here so we want to make sure that we pass on our knowledge and our desire to help others so that this community can continue to get stronger. It is what sets the SQL Server Community apart from many of the other communities out there.
July 30, 2014 at 10:16 am
It should be noted as well, that sometimes people come to SSC and ask question(s) and then actually get upset when we try to show them better ways to accomplish a task. I have personally been berated by a few OPs for not JUST answering the question.
Or for asking additional questions trying to get additional details.
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