March 2, 2017 at 9:41 am
Grant Fritchey - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:25 AMGilaMonster - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:24 AMJeff Moden - Thursday, March 2, 2017 7:47 AMIronically, the ones that knew the least rated themselves the highest when asked to rate themselves on a scale of 1 to 10 on the skills advertised for the job prior to the interview.At my previous employer, for legal purposes we were required to a) ask every single person the same set of questions on an initial interview and b) keep notes. I had notes on over 150 people failing to answer 10, stupid simple questions, about SQL Server. The vast majority of those people had, at least on paper, 5-10 years of experience as a DBA. If within 5 years, you can't tell me the difference between a CI & NCI or two of three standard recovery models(and I would have gleefully accepted non-standard models) or even, my favorite failing question, "So, SQL Server X was just released, can you tell me anything about it at all?" Huge, huge, huge swaths of people don't even bother reading "What's new" to see what's coming out in vNext.
Trying to hire a competent data pro is a flipping nightmare. No wonder everyone wants to eliminate the position.
At my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.
The vast majority of the candidates only got interviews out pity after that because crumpling up their results and playing basketball with the trash can while laughing would be rude, these were people with post high school degrees in something tech related applying for developer jobs :crying:
March 2, 2017 at 9:51 am
ZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.
And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
March 2, 2017 at 10:09 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
It depends. For DBAs, it might not be relevant. For developers it is actually a nice option. It's all about the kind of job.
March 2, 2017 at 10:29 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
Well one demonstrates knowledge, the other demonstrates an ability to apply knowledge. They're both important qualities.
March 2, 2017 at 10:37 am
Luis Cazares - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:09 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
It depends. For DBAs, it might not be relevant. For developers it is actually a nice option. It's all about the kind of job.
I think the math question is relevant for a DBA role as well as the developer role. Math is about sequences and logic. Database performance deals with a lot of math and logic. Good performing indexes, procedures, stats, routines and processes comes down to logical and sequencing - which math teaches. A DBA should understand order of operations - it is entirely applicable within TSQL.
These logical types of questions can also help to provide an insight into the thought process of a candidate for other skills than tsql or math. You can learn a bit about a person trying to do a simple math problem and gauge how that person may react to a troubleshooting task (is it happening to everybody or just 1 user type, where did the problem first start).
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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March 2, 2017 at 10:39 am
ZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:29 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
Well one demonstrates knowledge, the other demonstrates an ability to apply knowledge. They're both important qualities.
I like to call that the difference between book smart and street smart.
😀
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 2, 2017 at 10:46 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
I would fail this one too. I vaguely remember there is a formula for this but I don't remember what it is because high school was a LONG time ago and I don't use this type of calculation. In t-sql terms I would have to solve using a cursor instead of a set based approach. I would take the faster one calculate the time it took to go half the distance, then determine how far the slower one went. Then calculate the distance between them at that point and start again. I would get the right answer but my path would agonizingly slow (like a cursor) with multiple calculations when one would have been sufficient.
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
March 2, 2017 at 10:48 am
Lynn Pettis - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:29 AMGilaMonster - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:17 AMThomasRushton - Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:04 AMLynn Pettis - Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:43 PM< rant> Why can't people READ the error messages? They may be obscure at times but others actually tell you what the problem resides. </ rant>Error messages aren't always helpful.
"String or binary data will be truncated"
"Floating point exception"Vague, yes, but I know where to start looking if I get those error messages. Aw, yes, experience plays a role there.
The "String or binary data would be truncated" is my big one. I hate that error. Yes, experience plays a key part, but I still have to narrow it down in the (sometimes long) list of columns.
March 2, 2017 at 11:04 am
ZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:29 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
Well one demonstrates knowledge, the other demonstrates an ability to apply knowledge. They're both important qualities.
The customer is buying 13.03 in goods, they give you 20.03, how much do you give in change? True event, the cashier rang it up as full payment, no change. Didn't know how much change to give, had to get coworker to figure it out, and she needed a calculator. Sad state of affairs for recent high school graduate.
March 2, 2017 at 11:13 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
Train question actually might be interesting to see if they assume or ask for some more details.
34 years at the same company - my resume is under 3 pages.
But outlines a career from shop floor to Data Warehouse Developer.
Fun to outline the transition and how the shop floor experience combined with being on the ERP system setup and support actually was a key to moving from Operations to IT.
Never thought when welding and grinding boxes I would be able to describe MRP and how it works, or how and where to insert a trigger to capture a transaction.
March 2, 2017 at 11:15 am
Sean Lange - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:46 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
I would fail this one too. I vaguely remember there is a formula for this but I don't remember what it is because high school was a LONG time ago and I don't use this type of calculation. In t-sql terms I would have to solve using a cursor instead of a set based approach. I would take the faster one calculate the time it took to go half the distance, then determine how far the slower one went. Then calculate the distance between them at that point and start again. I would get the right answer but my path would agonizingly slow (like a cursor) with multiple calculations when one would have been sufficient.
What if I told you that it's very easy to get with percentages or fractions? You just need 3 basic arithmetic operations to solve the problem.
March 2, 2017 at 11:27 am
Luis Cazares - Thursday, March 2, 2017 11:15 AMSean Lange - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:46 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
I would fail this one too. I vaguely remember there is a formula for this but I don't remember what it is because high school was a LONG time ago and I don't use this type of calculation. In t-sql terms I would have to solve using a cursor instead of a set based approach. I would take the faster one calculate the time it took to go half the distance, then determine how far the slower one went. Then calculate the distance between them at that point and start again. I would get the right answer but my path would agonizingly slow (like a cursor) with multiple calculations when one would have been sufficient.
What if I told you that it's very easy to get with percentages or fractions? You just need 3 basic arithmetic operations to solve the problem.
I would have a hard time with this now, but it would have been easy for me at least 27 years ago while still doing the college thing and blowing curves in my math classes and angering my fellow adult students.
March 2, 2017 at 12:19 pm
Luis Cazares - Thursday, March 2, 2017 11:15 AMSean Lange - Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:46 AMBrandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
I would fail this one too. I vaguely remember there is a formula for this but I don't remember what it is because high school was a LONG time ago and I don't use this type of calculation. In t-sql terms I would have to solve using a cursor instead of a set based approach. I would take the faster one calculate the time it took to go half the distance, then determine how far the slower one went. Then calculate the distance between them at that point and start again. I would get the right answer but my path would agonizingly slow (like a cursor) with multiple calculations when one would have been sufficient.
What if I told you that it's very easy to get with percentages or fractions? You just need 3 basic arithmetic operations to solve the problem.
I have no doubt that it can be solved that way. I just don't remember how to do it because I haven't done it in 30+ years. 😛 This is why I said I would fail it and resort to a "cursor" when there is clearly a set based approach that I don't remember.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
March 2, 2017 at 1:53 pm
I feel bad that my resume has stretched onto a third page but I guess I do have nearly 20 years experience at this point. I also include information about myself outside of work. Things like volunteer work and coaching soccer. None of the resumes I saw recently had any of this kind of thing. They were just a robotic listing of the work tasks and provided no insight to the humanistic side of the applicant.
Nobody in recruitment agencies read resumes nowadays.
They do not accept resumes in any format other than Word document. Even PDF is not good for them.
It's because they feed all the resumes to a specialised tool which parses it according some predefined patterns and populates the database with the candidate's skills.
Professional job hunters know the system, and know how to build the resume to be amongst most preferable candidates - they just need to fit the system.
Professional DBA's are not so good in job hunting, they rarely fit the standard pattern, so there is a very little chance you'll ever see them on another side of the table.
Unless you dump the agency.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
March 3, 2017 at 2:26 am
Brandie Tarvin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:51 AMZZartin - Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:41 AMAt my last job the first thing we gave techy applicants was a basic math quiz, like grade school level basic, train leaves a station going X miles per hour train b leaves a station going Y miles per hour they're Z distance apart how long until there's a fiery wreck kind of basic.And that would be the question I would fail at. I had a couple of horrible math teachers in school who made me struggle when I had questions rather than helping me understand. So if I got that as a question at a tech interview, I'd have to decide how badly I really wanted the job or if I should just walk out of the interview.
It is, I think, an unfair question. Asking people about order of operator precedence would make sense to me in this kind of a job. Not so much asking about story problems ripped straight out of a high-school math book that have nothing to do with what the job is about.
Here's a description of O-level Maths teaching in the Scottish Highlands in the 1970's.
Walk into the classroom, sit down, peer at scribbles on the blackboard which bear no relation to the textbook.
Teacher spends the ENTIRE LESSON slouched at her desk reading Mills & Boon.
Some time after I left this school, the kids rebelled against her novel teaching style and she was encouraged or forced to leave, I don't know which. I know she was locked into the class store cupboard on one occasion because I know who did it, and I later heard she'd had a breakdown, attributed to the rebellion. Sympathy? I can hardly contain my indifference. Education is no place for shirkers like this. I'm still crap at Maths (I'm sure my classmates are too) but I can roll a half decent query.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
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