November 17, 2010 at 11:35 am
K. Brian Kelley (11/17/2010)
Lynn Pettis (11/17/2010)
Anyone who claims to be a 10, imho, is either a liar or too full of himself (or herself) as it is simple arrogance.I think this depends. If you're talking about specific areas, then Paul Randal is a 10 on DBCC and the storage engine. He wrote the bloody thing. If we are talking general SQL Server knowledge, which you consider everything that makes up SQL Server now:
- Database Engine (including CLR, service broker, replication, etc.)
- Analysis Services
- Integration Services
- Reporting Services
I would say anyone putting themselves above a 7 is likely not thinking with a clear head.
I would say it depends on how you define 7 vs 10.
If the scale is a percentile-based one, then there definitely are people who qualify as a 10 in their specialty, or even in "SQL Server". As in, they are better than 99% of the base population at it. A 9 would be better than 90%, up to 99%, and so on.
If it's some sort of hard number system, where a 10 is perfect knowledge of everything that has anything to do with SQL Server, I'd say there probably isn't a person on the planet higher than maybe a 2. After all, "everything that has anything to do" would mean perfect knowledge of every person who interacts with databases, and so on.
So, what's a 10? How is it different from a 9? How is a 9 different from an 8? And so on.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 17, 2010 at 11:38 am
Eric Russell 13013 (11/17/2010)
Ed Salva (11/17/2010)
Is there a scale?In the 20+ I've been playing with computers (and being a small shop generalist), I've found that I know even less than when I started.
Some days I'm not even sure I know how to ask the right questions.
And yet there still has to be a better way to communicate (information).
So I'll keep plugging 🙂
Well, anyone can Google "sql server and error 1205". An expert is the person who can quickly sift through the results, pick the correct answer, and then implement it before the problem escalates and makes him look incompetent. That takes experience.
If the question were only that simple 🙂 It's usually the business rules that get me, like "why did .... happen this way". (asked several weeks after the problem occurred, in a system that has a limited audit trail and after hours of research only to find out that that is the way it should have been and the person did not understand the complex logic they helped to create). :hehe:
-- Optimist with experience and still learning
November 17, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Ed Salva (11/17/2010)
Eric Russell 13013 (11/17/2010)
Ed Salva (11/17/2010)
Is there a scale?In the 20+ I've been playing with computers (and being a small shop generalist), I've found that I know even less than when I started.
Some days I'm not even sure I know how to ask the right questions.
And yet there still has to be a better way to communicate (information).
So I'll keep plugging 🙂
Well, anyone can Google "sql server and error 1205". An expert is the person who can quickly sift through the results, pick the correct answer, and then implement it before the problem escalates and makes him look incompetent. That takes experience.
If the question were only that simple 🙂 It's usually the business rules that get me, like "why did .... happen this way". (asked several weeks after the problem occurred, in a system that has a limited audit trail and after hours of research only to find out that that is the way it should have been and the person did not understand the complex logic they helped to create). :hehe:
In my current job, I context switch between multiple projects, some in production and some in development. Some of it involves SSIS and ETL, mostly T-SQL and a little DBA stuff on the side in the Dev and QA environment. A lot of it involves tasks that would fall under the category of data analyst; running ad-hoc queries against terrabyte sized data warehouses to determine why a specific report contained an unexpected number of records, etc. Starting back a few years ago, I have a table which contains one record for each execution of a report or ETL extract. It contains not only the start / end time to measure what happened, for how long, and how frequently, but I also have a varchar(max) column containing the text of the SQL statement that was executed. It makes playing the role of "CSI" or "flight crash investigator" a lot easier.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 17, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Brandon Forest (11/17/2010)
Maybe a 5.When I started out in the IT field, DOS 2.11 was the dominant PC operating system. I learned to do everything in it, including tweaking the UMB from the config file.
I remember doing that for our BBS systems. That was later, towards the DOS 3.x days, that we got to that point. I also remember running Desqview to maximize usage of that memory.
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
November 17, 2010 at 1:34 pm
K. Brian Kelley (11/17/2010)
Brandon Forest (11/17/2010)
Maybe a 5.When I started out in the IT field, DOS 2.11 was the dominant PC operating system. I learned to do everything in it, including tweaking the UMB from the config file.
I remember doing that for our BBS systems. That was later, towards the DOS 3.x days, that we got to that point. I also remember running Desqview to maximize usage of that memory.
I was developing database applications in Clipper and FoxPro back in that era. When the excutable approached 500KB, we had to start scalling back on unnecessary features (like long variable names or error message text) in order to get the program to load on PCs with only 640KB of intalled memory. Sometimes the users had to unload their mouse or cd-rom drivers to free up more memory, but starting with DOS 6.0, you configure the config.sys to load alternate configurations using a menu at bootup.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 17, 2010 at 2:08 pm
sqlsystemadministrators (11/17/2010)
The best DBA is the one who can goolge the fastest.
Nah it's not it's the one hoo can spel.
For better assistance in answering your questions, please read this[/url].
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins[/url] / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url] Jeff Moden[/url]
November 18, 2010 at 8:30 am
anyone who says they are a 10 has reached the pinnacle in their career. they are done. time to move on to something else. no one knows it all. you should always strive to but infinity is a really big number...
saying you're a 10 means you have nothing left to learn. time to retire?
November 18, 2010 at 8:32 am
CriticalStatus (11/18/2010)
anyone who says they are a 10 has reached the pinnacle in their career. they are done. time to move on to something else. no one knows it all. you should always strive to but infinity is a really big number...saying you're a 10 means you have nothing left to learn. time to retire?
Again, it depends on whether 10 is an absolute number, or means you are at the top compared to others.
If it's the second, then the only way to stay a 10 would be to continue learning. If it's the first, then you've somehow violated basic laws of this universe and know everything about everything, which means that physical reality will probably implode and you won't have to worry about retiring. 🙂
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 18, 2010 at 8:32 am
ChrisM@home (11/17/2010)
sqlsystemadministrators (11/17/2010)
The best DBA is the one who can goolge the fastest.Nah it's not it's the one hoo can spel.
the best dba is the one that can effectively recover the fastest
November 18, 2010 at 8:45 am
anyone who says they are a 10 has reached the pinnacle in their career. they are done. time to move on to something else. no one knows it all. you should always strive to but infinity is a really big number...
saying you're a 10 means you have nothing left to learn. time to retire?
That might apply to Star Trek trivia or Roman History, where the knowledgebase is static or evolves very slowly, but the SQL Server knowledgebase is a swiftly expanding, and what was true yesterday may not be true tomorrow as new technology replaces obsolete features.
Even if someone were somehow classified today as a level "10" expert, if they decided to take a break from it all, perhaps hole up in a Budhist temple for a couple of years to discover their inner self, then when they came back, their knowledge would be somewhat stale. Without being enaged in daily practice for so long, they would even have trouble remembering a lot of what they previously once knew.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 19, 2010 at 6:47 am
I've always said that there are three types of computer users :
1) Know little or nothing about computers, admit that fact and will always ask for assistance. They can be annoying to support in a way, but at least they never break anything because they won't fiddle.
3) The "experts", know a lot about certain areas of IT, have a grasp of others and no nothing about others. Crucially they know which is which and act accordingly, so they know when to fiddle, when to be cautious and when to simply back off and ask someone else for help. I suspect most of here fit into this category.
and smack in the middle...
2) Know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to realise it. They can probably handle supporting their home computer, and maybe those of friends. They may have been using computers since "the good ole days", and believe length of time infers knowledge and experience, and they know all about "computers". They may even work in computing, perhaps in desktop support or as a "webmaster". Faced with a problem they're unsure of, they'll first try what they know about, then stumble blindly into areas they've never seen before, changing settings left right and centre to see what happens, but with no sense of what they've done. Once the system is even worse than before they won't know how to put it back how they found it, will possibly contact someone to help, but will invariably swear blind that they've done nothing, and it was like that when they found it. A common symptom includes a strong desire for the cause of all issues to be things they are familiar with, and they will insist to whoever is trying to fix it that it must be x in order to sound knowledgeable. IT support people around the world dread hearing from them.
November 19, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Keith Langmead (11/19/2010)
I've always said that there are three types of computer users :1) Know little or nothing about computers, admit that fact and will always ask for assistance. They can be annoying to support in a way, but at least they never break anything because they won't fiddle.
3) The "experts", know a lot about certain areas of IT, have a grasp of others and no nothing about others. Crucially they know which is which and act accordingly, so they know when to fiddle, when to be cautious and when to simply back off and ask someone else for help. I suspect most of here fit into this category.
and smack in the middle...
2) Know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to realise it. <snip> IT support people around the world dread hearing from them.
The #2s may fall under the "dreaded" category, but they do constitute job security for us #3s. :hehe:
November 19, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Nakul Vachhrajani (11/16/2010)
I guess that in today's world, knowing everything about any product is a physical impossibility. What matters most is:1. You know what the product can do (not how!), and
2. As you put it Steve, "know where to get answers, or who I can ask for help".
The above is how I've managed to stay in the game in the IT field for 15+ years, despite my primary profesional vocation being technical writing. My background as a writer type means that I know how to do research and that I'm not satisfied until I'm sure I have the right answer. That mindset has saved my tail in the tech support realm several times and probably contributed to my landing my present job.
November 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Kieth may be right that #2's will keep #3's working, but that don't mean I gotta like it :-D. My current project is a rescue project, and I have been involved with more rescue projects than I care to admit. Getting a build from scratch gig is my holy grail. I've had a few, but the rescue projects out number them 3:1 😉
November 22, 2010 at 3:54 am
Geoffrey Wrigg (11/19/2010)
The #2s may fall under the "dreaded" category, but they do constitute job security for us #3s. :hehe:
Haha, that's a fair point and probably quite true, but it doesn't stop me dreaming of a day when I can just fix problems rather than fix other peoples attempts to fix problems! :rolleyes:
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