October 31, 2017 at 1:38 am
Sue_H - Monday, October 30, 2017 1:39 PMI had a great response earlier but lost the post. So keep in mind, that one was great.
One of the things I just thought of is that maybe we are all getting ahead of ourselves and focusing on the database. It sounds like you are looking more for a packaged solution of some sort. I would think in that case, what you select can dictate what database is used. And subsequently, what skill sets you may need to hire. Or maybe you also need to get some help with selecting some software, platform for your business. Finding the right platform and implementing that platform can often be different skill sets.
ZZartin mentioned awhile back about using open source document management software and that's not a bad place to start looking. Have you searched for any of those and start looking over them to see if it meets your needs? That might be a better place to start. Not definitely, just a thought.
I think it could be worth the effort to search on some of those and see if it's going to meet your needs, if it's a realistic option, etc. I just searched on: open source dms
I got a lot of hits as well as some lists of top 5, top nn type of things for open source document management systems.
I don't think it's likely that you will find some ideal free software to do everything you want so you may want to take more time to define what is truly needed now but also keep in mind what you need in the future. What is the critical need right now for you all to move forward with the business. There will always be a lot of "nice to haves" even if you paid for the most expensive software. As already mentioned a few times, TINSTAAFL so that's important to keep in perspective.Sue
Thank you Sue.
Yes, perhaps, we need something different from a DB and we need advice on what we need to start with.
We also decided to look for a freelancer on one of these internet platforms like Elance and Upwork.
We have different needs but, as you correctly point out, the primary one, is to be able to (a) find and (b) share information that we already have in our company. We have piles of contracts, contacts, offers, emails and letters, commodities specifications, refineries, traders, brokers, bank officers, and other records. These cannot be stored in our memories and when we have a new opportunity (for example a VSL with gasoil out of Vladivostok) we need to match it to potential buyers, banks that will work certain procedures/compliance, brokers that can be interested, etc., etc..
We need to allow all 14 partners to do this matrix matching and, possibly, allow our brokers to give access to our database also to their brokers, with limitations and restrictions to sensitive information (what commission percentage we receive from a seller or a buyer, the confidential bank standing of a client, etc.).
We already use the cloud to store our documents (all 14 partners) but when we search we never get fast or accurate results and all the emails are left out as these are on our GoDaddy servers or even on our own Outlook pst files.
We would like additinal bells and frills but, for now, this is the esssential: search records within our own firm.
We are happy to look at different tools from a database, and we are looking at a few tools as those mentioned in this thread: postgredSQL, Salesforce, etc.
Again, Sue, thank you for your time and expertise if you have more advice I am all ears.
October 31, 2017 at 1:40 am
tommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:32 AMFridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PMtommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PMYou keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.
I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.
Regarding forms: how do users input data in a database? I thought there are masks, like on websites, that ask you to input values... no? Am I missing something? I imagine that a database will have such masks... I apologize but I am not familiar with the topic.
You mean forms, where users enter and view data?
No, databases are data storage. They have interfaces, but they're not the type that your users can use, unless they're all software developers.
I would advice that you look at of-the-shelf applications, because if your try and develop it yourself, it's going to cost a lot, in time, in money and in future problems
Yes, I mean exactly that: "forms, where users enter and view data?". This is, obviously, paramount. Without this no partner in our firm can input or search data.
Can you reccomend off-the-shelf database?
October 31, 2017 at 10:09 am
GilaMonster - Monday, October 30, 2017 7:21 PMtommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:32 AMFridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PMtommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PMYou keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.
I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.
Regarding forms: how do users input data in a database? I thought there are masks, like on websites, that ask you to input values... no? Am I missing something? I imagine that a database will have such masks... I apologize but I am not familiar with the topic.
You mean forms, where users enter and view data?
No, databases are data storage. They have interfaces, but they're not the type that your users can use, unless they're all software developers.I would advice that you look at of-the-shelf applications, because if your try and develop it yourself, it's going to cost a lot, in time, in money and in future problems
Yes, I mean exactly that: "forms, where users enter and view data?". This is, obviously, paramount. Without this no partner in our firm can input or search data.
Can you reccomend off-the-shelf database?
How much data are we talking about? Would something like MS Access serve your needs?
If it's a large amount of data, you can run Access on your front-end and SQL Server on your back-end.
But as others have alluded to, you would probably need external expertise to set it up, including (and especially) security concerns. With all the security issues these days, I would make that a priority, to say nothing of your actual data table and front-end/back-end setups.
Hope this works out for you. Good luck.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Check out my blog at https://pianorayk.wordpress.com/
October 31, 2017 at 10:19 am
tommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMCan you reccomend off-the-shelf database?
Application, not database. Application will be a combo of forms, input and the DB in the back.
And, I can't, because I don't know your requirements (as in functional requirements). You're not going to get an application that does everything, you need to research what off-the-shelf applications exist for your problem area.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 31, 2017 at 3:18 pm
tommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMGilaMonster - Monday, October 30, 2017 7:21 PMtommyleo - Monday, October 30, 2017 9:32 AMFridayNightGiant - Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:47 PMtommyleo - Thursday, October 26, 2017 1:55 PMYou keep talking about databases but you also mention input forms etc. What are you planning to write these in? You know a databases like SQL Server/MySql etc aren't like access - they don't have a forms option.
I think you would be better placed looking at software which already exists. For example Salesforce. This would allow you to create records for you sellers etc, store documents against these records, search these documents etc.
Regarding forms: how do users input data in a database? I thought there are masks, like on websites, that ask you to input values... no? Am I missing something? I imagine that a database will have such masks... I apologize but I am not familiar with the topic.
You mean forms, where users enter and view data?
No, databases are data storage. They have interfaces, but they're not the type that your users can use, unless they're all software developers.I would advice that you look at of-the-shelf applications, because if your try and develop it yourself, it's going to cost a lot, in time, in money and in future problems
Yes, I mean exactly that: "forms, where users enter and view data?". This is, obviously, paramount. Without this no partner in our firm can input or search data.
Can you reccomend off-the-shelf database?
How much data are we talking about? Would something like MS Access serve your needs?
If it's a large amount of data, you can run Access on your front-end and SQL Server on your back-end.
But as others have alluded to, you would probably need external expertise to set it up, including (and especially) security concerns. With all the security issues these days, I would make that a priority, to say nothing of your actual data table and front-end/back-end setups.
Hope this works out for you. Good luck.
Thank you for sharing your time. I do not know how Access works but I will try to read a bit and understand if it can contain documents that can be searched.
October 31, 2017 at 3:20 pm
GilaMonster - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:19 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMCan you reccomend off-the-shelf database?Application, not database. Application will be a combo of forms, input and the DB in the back.
And, I can't, because I don't know your requirements (as in functional requirements). You're not going to get an application that does everything, you need to research what off-the-shelf applications exist for your problem area.
Thank you Gail. I have a lot of work in front of me...
Do you, or anyone else, know which is a good platform for hiring freelancers, except Upwork (they do not protect as they promise)
November 22, 2017 at 3:44 am
tommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:20 PMGilaMonster - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:19 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMCan you reccomend off-the-shelf database?Application, not database. Application will be a combo of forms, input and the DB in the back.
And, I can't, because I don't know your requirements (as in functional requirements). You're not going to get an application that does everything, you need to research what off-the-shelf applications exist for your problem area.Thank you Gail. I have a lot of work in front of me...
Do you, or anyone else, know which is a good platform for hiring freelancers, except Upwork (they do not protect as they promise)
Hi Tom,
I came across this forum accidentally while searching for something else, and couldn't help but create an account and reply due to what seems to me like a complete misunderstanding 🙂
It seems to me that you ended up on the wrong forum, because the word "database" means something very different in the software world than the business world. A "database" in the sense it's talked about here is a backend system mainly meant to be a data storage area for other computer systems (i.e. application software). You don't get anything out of a database per-se; you'd still have to build an application on top of it to get any use out of it. This is usually (but not always) a fairly large-scale effort and pretty cost-prohibitive for a small shop. You were basically asking "what is the best way for me to ship these [five] envelopes" but ended up in a place where the follow-up question was "well, that depends on how big a fleet of 18-wheelers you need" 🙂
To me, it sounds like you guys have a few offices around the world with a small handful of staff in each one, and simply want a centralized place to store all of your data and documents where everyone can access them without having to constantly email/fax things to each other (after figuring out where that document physically is in the first place). What you need is a CRM and a document management system. There are plenty of out-of-the-box solutions, lots of them free, which should be able to do everything you want and more. Just do a Google search; the key is to avoid the word "database".
Here are the first 3 results I found with a simple Google search for "open source document management platform":
- https://www.openkm.com/
- http://www.seeddms.org/index.php?id=2
- http://www.opendocman.com/
I didn't look into them but they should be free, even if they offer paid plans/editions (the idea is to look for "community edition" or "open source"). You might have to hire a freelancer to get it up and running, but that's a one time thing.
Keep in mind that even if you do go with a free solution, you will still end up having to pay for "hosting" (somewhere to run the system on the internet where other people can access it). This should not be more than $5-10/month for the systems we are talking about.
If you'd like something more sophisticated and customizable, you might want to try something like Microsoft Access. Your mileage may vary, but Access provides the ability to create things like forms right out of the box (although there will be a fairly steep learning curve for a non-IT person). Personally, however, I'd recommend steering clear of Access (I'm also not sure how they fare in terms of document storage).
Either way, I'll take the liberty to say that you most likely do not need a "proper database" in the sense of what's being discussed here, unless you're willing to hire a developer to go the full-fledged route of building custom software around it.
Hope this helps, and apologies if I made any incorrect assumptions or came off strong. Best of luck!
November 22, 2017 at 4:06 am
a1010 - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 3:44 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:20 PMGilaMonster - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:19 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMCan you reccomend off-the-shelf database?Application, not database. Application will be a combo of forms, input and the DB in the back.
And, I can't, because I don't know your requirements (as in functional requirements). You're not going to get an application that does everything, you need to research what off-the-shelf applications exist for your problem area.Thank you Gail. I have a lot of work in front of me...
Do you, or anyone else, know which is a good platform for hiring freelancers, except Upwork (they do not protect as they promise)
Hi Tom,
I came across this forum accidentally while searching for something else, and couldn't help but create an account and reply due to what seems to me like a complete misunderstanding 🙂
It seems to me that you ended up on the wrong forum, because the word "database" means something very different in the software world than the business world. A "database" in the sense it's talked about here is a backend system mainly meant to be a data storage area for other computer systems (i.e. application software). You don't get anything out of a database per-se; you'd still have to build an application on top of it to get any use out of it. This is usually (but not always) a fairly large-scale effort and pretty cost-prohibitive for a small shop. You were basically asking "what is the best way for me to ship these [five] envelopes" but ended up in a place where the follow-up question was "well, that depends on how big a fleet of 18-wheelers you need" 🙂
To me, it sounds like you guys have a few offices around the world with a small handful of staff in each one, and simply want a centralized place to store all of your data and documents where everyone can access them without having to constantly email/fax things to each other (after figuring out where that document physically is in the first place). What you need is a CRM and a document management system. There are plenty of out-of-the-box solutions, lots of them free, which should be able to do everything you want and more. Just do a Google search; the key is to avoid the word "database".
Here are the first 3 results I found with a simple Google search for "open source document management platform":
- https://www.openkm.com/
- http://www.seeddms.org/index.php?id=2
- http://www.opendocman.com/I didn't look into them but they should be free, even if they offer paid plans/editions (the idea is to look for "community edition" or "open source"). You might have to hire a freelancer to get it up and running, but that's a one time thing.
Keep in mind that even if you do go with a free solution, you will still end up having to pay for "hosting" (somewhere to run the system on the internet where other people can access it). This should not be more than $5-10/month for the systems we are talking about.
If you'd like something more sophisticated and customizable, you might want to try something like Microsoft Access. Your mileage may vary, but Access provides the ability to create things like forms right out of the box (although there will be a fairly steep learning curve for a non-IT person). Personally, however, I'd recommend steering clear of Access (I'm also not sure how they fare in terms of document storage).
Either way, I'll take the liberty to say that you most likely do not need a "proper database" in the sense of what's being discussed here, unless you're willing to hire a developer to go the full-fledged route of building custom software around it.
Hope this helps, and apologies if I made any incorrect assumptions or came off strong. Best of luck!
I truly appreciate your post. Not only you invested your time to help a complete stranger but your understanding produced a 100% accurate analysis and your expertise suggested the perfect solution: I looked at those links and these programmes are exactly what we need. Thank you.
We had given up on the idea of building a "database" due to the prohibitive complexity and cost, at least as we perceived it from the replies herein received. A few members did point out tha there were document management systems but I failed to understand that these were the ones that you linked. Perhaps the fact that English is not my first language hampered my clear understanding of the advice that members here were giving me and you spelled it in simple enough language for me to grasp it.
My initial question (Best database - advice) was wrong but I did not know this. I appreciate that you understood my error and took your time/expertise to help me. I wish that I could show you my appreciation in a more tangible way but, here, I can only say: THANK YOU. God bless you!
Tommaso
November 22, 2017 at 4:27 am
tommyleo - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 4:06 AMa1010 - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 3:44 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:20 PMGilaMonster - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:19 AMtommyleo - Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:40 AMCan you reccomend off-the-shelf database?Application, not database. Application will be a combo of forms, input and the DB in the back.
And, I can't, because I don't know your requirements (as in functional requirements). You're not going to get an application that does everything, you need to research what off-the-shelf applications exist for your problem area.Thank you Gail. I have a lot of work in front of me...
Do you, or anyone else, know which is a good platform for hiring freelancers, except Upwork (they do not protect as they promise)
Hi Tom,
I came across this forum accidentally while searching for something else, and couldn't help but create an account and reply due to what seems to me like a complete misunderstanding 🙂
It seems to me that you ended up on the wrong forum, because the word "database" means something very different in the software world than the business world. A "database" in the sense it's talked about here is a backend system mainly meant to be a data storage area for other computer systems (i.e. application software). You don't get anything out of a database per-se; you'd still have to build an application on top of it to get any use out of it. This is usually (but not always) a fairly large-scale effort and pretty cost-prohibitive for a small shop. You were basically asking "what is the best way for me to ship these [five] envelopes" but ended up in a place where the follow-up question was "well, that depends on how big a fleet of 18-wheelers you need" 🙂
To me, it sounds like you guys have a few offices around the world with a small handful of staff in each one, and simply want a centralized place to store all of your data and documents where everyone can access them without having to constantly email/fax things to each other (after figuring out where that document physically is in the first place). What you need is a CRM and a document management system. There are plenty of out-of-the-box solutions, lots of them free, which should be able to do everything you want and more. Just do a Google search; the key is to avoid the word "database".
Here are the first 3 results I found with a simple Google search for "open source document management platform":
- https://www.openkm.com/
- http://www.seeddms.org/index.php?id=2
- http://www.opendocman.com/I didn't look into them but they should be free, even if they offer paid plans/editions (the idea is to look for "community edition" or "open source"). You might have to hire a freelancer to get it up and running, but that's a one time thing.
Keep in mind that even if you do go with a free solution, you will still end up having to pay for "hosting" (somewhere to run the system on the internet where other people can access it). This should not be more than $5-10/month for the systems we are talking about.
If you'd like something more sophisticated and customizable, you might want to try something like Microsoft Access. Your mileage may vary, but Access provides the ability to create things like forms right out of the box (although there will be a fairly steep learning curve for a non-IT person). Personally, however, I'd recommend steering clear of Access (I'm also not sure how they fare in terms of document storage).
Either way, I'll take the liberty to say that you most likely do not need a "proper database" in the sense of what's being discussed here, unless you're willing to hire a developer to go the full-fledged route of building custom software around it.
Hope this helps, and apologies if I made any incorrect assumptions or came off strong. Best of luck!
I truly appreciate your post. Not only you invested your time to help a complete stranger but your understanding produced a 100% accurate analysis and your expertise suggested the perfect solution: I looked at those links and these programmes are exactly what we need. Thank you.
We had given up on the idea of building a "database" due to the prohibitive complexity and cost, at least as we perceived it from the replies herein received. A few members did point out tha there were document management systems but I failed to understand that these were the ones that you linked. Perhaps the fact that English is not my first language hampered my clear understanding of the advice that members here were giving me and you spelled it in simple enough language for me to grasp it.
My initial question (Best database - advice) was wrong but I did not know this. I appreciate that you understood my error and took your time/expertise to help me. I wish that I could show you my appreciation in a more tangible way but, here, I can only say: THANK YOU. God bless you!
Tommaso
Not a problem at all -- glad I could be of help!
November 22, 2017 at 6:09 am
a1010 - Wednesday, November 22, 2017 4:27 AMNot a problem at all -- glad I could be of help!
As a long time denizen here, thank you for pitching in. I hope we see more answers from you too.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
November 27, 2017 at 2:28 pm
tommyleo - Tuesday, October 24, 2017 3:25 PMHello to everyone,I rsearched in this forum but could not find pertinent advice... which is the best DB for our needs?
I am a very IT challenged (ignorant) partner who has been tasked with the responsibility to chose and create a DB for a start up physical commodities trading company, based in London but with partners physically located across 4 continents.
After 2 years of growth we now feel the need to create a database to share a hundreds of documents and information (buyers, sellers, brokers, procedures, commodities, specifications, transaction details, copies of contracts, bank compliance documents, invoices, offers, requests, etc.) amongst all 14 partners, located across the world.
Important considerations for our choice:
1. Ease of creation and use. Simple UI (some partners are 60 years old)
2. Available online/worldwide
3. Cheap (*)
4. Migration file format for a, possible, future upgrade to a better platform
(*) MySQL, at 2,000USD/year is out of reach, for now.We also seek a second tool/platform where partners (and clients, if case requires) could (a) meet, virtually, and create/collaborate on transactions and (b) communicate as if we were in a physical office.
Can anyone, please, offer any advice? I thank you in advamce for your expertise and time. Please keep the language very basic without jargon and technical terminology as I don't even know what SQL is...
🙁Tommaso
Hi Tommaso,
Considering the limited IT resources and budget you have to work with, I would suggest you start researching hosted solutions instead of seeking out advice on how to build your own database. If essentially what you need is a document storage and collaboration solution for a geographically dispersed organization, then consider something like Atlassian Confluence or Microsoft SharePoint (3rd party hosted).
For example, the license for Confluence is $5 per user / per month for up to 1000 users. It supports templates, versioning, change tracking, security, analytics and all the features you would probably need. Once you've successfully handed off the IT aspects of this business to folks who know what they're doing, you can then focus on your own role as data steward, analyst, editor, CEO, or whatever.
https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/features
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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