April 5, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Can We Skip the Marketing?
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April 5, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Heh... now we know why I don't go to TechEd and all those other "great" Microsoft events. I got a gut full in the late 90's. I got tired of just what you said... "exciting new features" with the normal band wagon and whistle blowing but without real world practical examples. To be quite literal about what I'd like to see at Microsoft events... [font="Arial Black"]GET REAL![/font] In fact, they can even borrow that iconic message. An advertising mantra of something like "GET REAL with Microsoft" and then actually providing real life examples at their events would bring a lot of lurkers out of the background and into their events.
The last time I saw a really good event was when Bill Gates announced Excel 5.0. They had a demo from a guy that showed how he built his real world practical example. It made all of the difference in the world.
--Jeff Moden
April 6, 2010 at 6:25 am
Amen, brother!!! That is why I quit going to conferences and other events (aside from SSUG's). I get a little tired of getting beaten by the Microsoft marketing cane!
April 6, 2010 at 10:17 am
I don't know of a vendor who doesn't do this at conferences and shows. It's to prevent "buyers remorse". It's supposed to reinforce that the decision to use the product is a good one. As you said, Steve, those of us in the trenches rarely have that kind of influence. I suppose it's presented to us so that we come away with a good feeling about the product and the company in general and won't bad-mouth either to our management.
It does get annoying after awhile, though.
April 6, 2010 at 10:27 am
I don't mind being shown features that aren't in common use. There's always the possibility that they aren't in common use because not enough people have been shown them. Or the possibility that, even though it doesn't have a common use, I might have a use for it.
With that in mind, I otherwise agree.
I went to a presentation on Visual Studio 2010 a few months ago (mid-January). Half of it was technical demos of new features. The other half was pure salesman/marketing talk.
There is a fine line between, "this feature will save you some time" from a technical perspective, and "this feature will save you some time, and it only costs $X extra".
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April 6, 2010 at 10:51 am
The only things I got from Microsoft sponsered events were that the upcoming version of product X would be fully buzzword compliant.
That and a few tee shirts.
April 6, 2010 at 1:58 pm
What I want is information that I can't easily find on my own.
What I don't want to see are contrived demos that show off a feature that's new without a real world application.
I agree full heartedly here. It seems that Microsoft has a hard time with this. Go ahead and market to the end-user or C-names. When you are sitting in a training class with Microsoft and you get belted with propaganda for Microsoft products. Even the MCM's got a full taste of the adware that Microsoft puts out.
I would prefer to see real world use of the features, and even some hands-on with it to get a real taste for it.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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April 6, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Steve Cullen (4/6/2010)
The only things I got from Microsoft sponsered events were that the upcoming version of product X would be fully buzzword compliant.That and a few tee shirts.
That's thinking outside the box. Excel and SSAS provide a synergy like never before seen.
:-D:w00t::hehe:
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 9, 2010 at 10:29 am
Hear, hear!!!
I think this should be required reading for Microsoft (and a seemingly endless number of other vendors)!!!
When I registered for SQL Saturday (anyone else going to #39 down in NYC on 4/24?), one of my (and my boss's) biggest concerns was that it would be exactly that: a sales pitch. (From what I've heard, I don't get that impression, and I'm looking forward to attending my very first SQL Saturday!)
In fact, I've stopped going to a lot of these things for this very reason: they've become sales pitches, and have ceased giving me anything that's worth my while.
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April 12, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Sales pitches can be fun. Ask the sales guy a technical question. then watch him squirm.........
However, I'd rather go to a deep dive tech presentation any day.
April 12, 2010 at 11:14 pm
There was a session I had 7 years ago when the Microsoft speaker was demonstrating the new Office and was in Excel connecting to a cube. Before that, we had discussed with my previous manager and former IT employee about how I did not want to make a fixed program for displaying data from cubes or graphs. Excel was a great, flexible front-end. We just had to find something in the middle between Excel and OLAP.
The lady speaker mentioned the connection in passing, just enough steps to set up and connect, bring down data and graph the history. After the display, she moved on. The three of us in the audience were open-jawed! This was what we were looking for. I looked around and saw none of the corporate attendees understood the significance. The three of us were already, well, ah, snickering and chuckling.
Those were our years of innovation. Nowadays, I get invited mostly to marketing events. I hardly hear of developer events, it seems they invite people according to job level.
When I do get to have those developer/training sessions, just like above, there is sufficient spam thrown in between. The speakers have to, its part of their job to advertise along with the training.
Perhaps, it is their way of saying, go to MS training centers/companies for further info.
April 13, 2010 at 2:12 am
There is also a product maturity point here.
Our main product is a heavy OLTP application and has been around since SQL Server 6.0. We used to have very significant problems with the stability of SQL Server in those days (torn pages, broken tables, having to pin tempdb in RAM, etc). So every new release was exciting and the new features offered real improvments over the previous version. The marketing WAS the technical then. Remember when profiler arrived, and DMVs, and other proper useful stuff?
Big turning point therefore with SQL Server 2000. Step Change. Much better in all respects and did what was required of it pretty well. SQL Server 2005 improved things further, and SSIS was now a winner. Dare I say it all remains good enough for what most people want today? I have customers still running on 2000, and they are sufficiently confident in it (because it performs OK and it's never gone wrong over ten years) that they don't even get too worried that support has been retired.
Trouble is that Microsoft have to sell licences, so if you can't get people to upgrade, you have to expand the footprint of the product. Inevitable then that each new feature will be more obscure than the last.
Maybe I'm just a luddite ... I don't use any features in Word that weren't there in 2000 either ...
Tim
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April 13, 2010 at 2:28 am
^^ What these said.
My own tuppenceworth also is that while I understand the comment, and would love to have Itzik Ben Gan determining the content of some of these presentations, it does not enhance your cause by having the "Hello SSIS World From XML" article on the front page today. It's a bit "Lesson 1 of Loops", straight out of the marketing manual.
April 13, 2010 at 6:05 am
Steve, you hit the nail right on the head. I totally agree with you.
April 13, 2010 at 6:44 am
We aren't sold. We are captives. While many of the features in the latest SQL Server or Visual Studio release may excite a percentage of the market, many of us are still using SQL 2005/Visual Studio 2005 because it works and our bosses/clients don't want to open the checkbooks more during these times. Also we are waiting for the early adaptors to find the land mines....
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