July 7, 2014 at 7:38 am
Gary, I lean that way too. I don't want to write procs for developers, but I don't want see the world reduced to CRUD either. If the ORM'ish tools can do better stuff than CRUD we spend less time fixing it and less time writing/re-writing. Does that then mean the end of the database developer, or does that role move into the dev world as someone who knows how to make ORM work beyond CRUD, or maybe just understands data better than the rest?
July 7, 2014 at 7:54 am
I believe that Microsoft has introduced a cloud database product for the same reason that Coca Cola introduced a line of bottled water products. It's not intended to be a replacement what they have been offering in the past; they just see the IT industry diverging in two directions, and they want to insure that they are a major player on both fronts. In 2020, when people think "database", then Microsoft wants you to think "SQL Server" as a viable option, regardless of the platform and requirements.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 7, 2014 at 8:26 am
Andy Warren (7/7/2014)
Gary, I lean that way too. I don't want to write procs for developers, but I don't want see the world reduced to CRUD either. If the ORM'ish tools can do better stuff than CRUD we spend less time fixing it and less time writing/re-writing. Does that then mean the end of the database developer, or does that role move into the dev world as someone who knows how to make ORM work beyond CRUD, or maybe just understands data better than the rest?
If the ORM tools are improved then we can have developers rolling out simple, low-medium performance applications with minimal or no DBA effort.
I see the database developer (i.e. the DBA Database Developers NOT Application Developers who also develop databases) being more niche work. Not that there will be less work, more that the work done will, on average, be more taxing.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 7, 2014 at 8:29 am
Eric M Russell (7/7/2014)
I believe that Microsoft has introduced a cloud database product for the same reason that Coca Cola introduced a line of bottled water products. It's not intended to be a replacement what they have been offering in the past; they just see the IT industry diverging in two directions, and they want to insure that they are a major player on both fronts. In 2020, when people think "database", then Microsoft wants you to think "SQL Server" as a viable option, regardless of the platform and requirements.
Absolutely. Coca-cola were happy to lose a "Coke" customer if they became a "Coke water" customer instead. They could reapply their marketing, production, distribution, and so on, expertise to water as well as cola.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 7, 2014 at 8:47 am
Gary Varga (7/7/2014)
Eric M Russell (7/7/2014)
I believe that Microsoft has introduced a cloud database product for the same reason that Coca Cola introduced a line of bottled water products. It's not intended to be a replacement what they have been offering in the past; they just see the IT industry diverging in two directions, and they want to insure that they are a major player on both fronts. In 2020, when people think "database", then Microsoft wants you to think "SQL Server" as a viable option, regardless of the platform and requirements.Absolutely. Coca-cola were happy to lose a "Coke" customer if they became a "Coke water" customer instead. They could reapply their marketing, production, distribution, and so on, expertise to water as well as cola.
In addition to SQL Server, a handful of down scaled sub-variants, and Azure SQL, there is also the little known and talked about SQL Server Parallel Data Warehouse edition; another substantially different branch of the database engine that scales across a MPP hardware platform.
So, Microsoft does have practically all bases covered, except perhaps embedded or non-Windows environments like Android. There is a java based SQL Server provider library for connecting to a remote SQL Server instance, but as far as I know there isn't an edition of SQL Server that will actually run locally on Android or other non-Windows operating systems.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 7, 2014 at 9:05 am
Eric M Russell (7/7/2014)
...In addition to SQL Server, a handful of down scaled sub-variants, and Azure SQL, there is also the little known and talked about SQL Server Parallel Data Warehouse edition; another substantially different branch of the database engine that scales across a MPP hardware platform.
So, Microsoft does have practically all bases covered, except perhaps embedded or non-Windows environments like Android. There is a java based SQL Server provider library for connecting to a remote SQL Server instance, but as far as I know there isn't an edition of SQL Server that will actually run locally on Android or other non-Windows operating systems.
I suspect that SQL Server, like other Microsoft products, will start to appear on other OSes but be extremely selective in which OSes and which variants. I think that you have hit the nail on the head with mobile.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 7, 2014 at 9:22 am
Andy Warren (7/7/2014)
Gary, I lean that way too. I don't want to write procs for developers, but I don't want see the world reduced to CRUD either. If the ORM'ish tools can do better stuff than CRUD we spend less time fixing it and less time writing/re-writing. Does that then mean the end of the database developer, or does that role move into the dev world as someone who knows how to make ORM work beyond CRUD, or maybe just understands data better than the rest?
I agree I don't want to see the world reduced to CRUD, but I believe the traditional DBA role will be reduced. Those reductions will see gains in BI, WebServices, Etc.
It's all about being able to provide the most for a business.
July 7, 2014 at 9:25 am
....I don’t want to wind up with the mainframe and VB6’s who hang on to those final installs hoping to make it to retirement without having to learn (or re-learn) skills on a whole new platform. I wish Microsoft would show us a better roadmap not just for the products but for the skill sets we’ll need to use them.
It is tempting to ascribe a bit more wisdom and intent to MS than is their due. I think they mostly make it up as they go along, heavily influenced by developments in other areas of software (and in hardware). There are very very few industries that are able to provide a long (or even medium) term roadmap. Indeed in computers and high tech, the definition of long term pretty much corresponds to any other industry's definition of short term.
July 7, 2014 at 9:30 am
Generally, I do not like the cloud. Perhaps this goes back to my philosophy of life which generally champions delocalization of power and individual privacy (Hmmm...where have we heard those themes before...?) However, at least within the corporate environment, there are legitimate and viable reasons to centralize control. At the same time, it is less clear how centralization of power should be used outside a corporate environment and especially within the networks which connect private individuals.
One case where I have personally thought about using the cloud is within our church which is a "small" (by comparison to society at large) group of people with limited resources but an emerging need for technology and data management. The church doesn't have the resources to set up a data center and hire a technology manager and developers to run it all, nor should they. However, having data and services available in the cloud does provide benefit at a reasonable cost without the said expenses of running it all. The cloud can also be useful for small startups who would rather invest their money into business-building strategies instead of infrastructure.
The danger in the cloud that I see (should it become the predominant method of computing for everyone in the world) is that it removes control from the individual and puts it with a governing or controlling authority. Along with this, cloud databases become a target of hackers since they can get the biggest bang for the buck (if successful) of getting the most data per break-in. Additionally, it invites unscrupulous people (or disgruntled employees) to look at your data and do something untoward with it. Ultimately (as I see it) it takes control and privacy away from the individual. As said before, I don't like that and for my personal use I would much rather have my "complete" computer and OS reside on MY local computer and have NO dependencies on remote computers, either in the cloud or otherwise.
So, I see a need and philosophical rationale for keeping computing resources local and not moving everything into the could. And who knows: it is quite possible that if everything did start moving to the could that legislation might be passed (in the name of privacy) to keep local computing a viable option and choice for end-users. Therefore, at this point, I see a continued need for non-cloud computing paradigms and thus continued opportunity for DBAs and local developers. Microsoft made its fortune by empowering developers out in the field. Making a move to exclusively centralize all developer activity somehow under the auspices or control of Microsoft runs counter to everything that made Microsoft great; therefore, to make such a decision by Microsoft represents a very risky and dangerous strategic change. So for now, I would have no problem sticking with SQL Server (or any database) as a private non-cloud solution or business model.
July 7, 2014 at 9:54 am
Anthony B. Colson (7/7/2014)
... The danger in the cloud that I see (should it become the predominant method of computing for everyone in the world) ...
I would argue that it already has for most. Maybe not us in IT but for those whose life exists in their email supplier (MS/Google/Yahoo?), calendar host (usually same as email), photos (Instagram), video (Vevo/YouTube), documents (Google Docs/One Drive/Dropbox/A Drive), music (Spotify/Amazon/iTunes), communication (Facebook/Twitter/Skype/Kik) and so on. It makes my home server requirements diminish every year.
*The products and suppliers mentioned in brackets are only as examples.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
July 7, 2014 at 10:07 am
You make a good point. However, these are still choices, even if unwittingly. In my mind, this is just another argument for people to strive to take personal responsibility for their lives instead of "going with the flow" to let someone else make those decisions. As long as a reasonable choice exists, with only a little bit of easily-accessible knowledge required, that is really all we can ask or hope for in a free market or society.
July 7, 2014 at 10:46 am
Well said. I like the idea of SQL Server in the cloud, but the tools keep coming in short. On more than one occasion I've been hired to fix a dB that was designed by developers. It was not until it was not scaling that the idea of a database expert was considered. DR, HA scalability and manageability should not be after-thoughts.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
July 7, 2014 at 10:55 am
From the software side, this reminds me of Windows 8. My notebook computer came with 8.0, and I have gone thru 8.1 and the 8.1 update. My Dell Venue 8 Pro came with 8.1, and also has the 8.1 update. With the 8.1 update, I find the OS to be perfectly functional using the desktop almost exclusive on my notebook computer, and the metro interface almost exclusively on the tablet. The main exceptions are the Bing weather app which is really cool, and Office, which only runs on the desktop for now.
Windows 8.0 definitely seemed like Windows 7 - the start menu + the metro interface. Similarly, SQL Server 14 seems like 12, with the in-memory and cloud stuff tacked on, and not fully integrated. Presumably, there will be better integration in the future.
But I can think of one reason Microsoft is pushing Azure so hard. All of our developers have Developer Edition, which only costs $50 or so. If Microsoft can get development pushed to the cloud, they stand to make a lot more than that, since developers will no doubt chew up a lot more space on the cloud than they could on their workstations.
DBA's will have to adapt, but when have we not been adapting? There are so many new features with each release, so nobody who isn't approaching retirement can count on doing the same thing they are now for the rest of their career.
Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 27 (of 27 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply