Differences

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Differences

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gtho Grasshopper Points: 12 More actions · Answer 1

Thanks for the reply Steve.

When you said in your editorial

"We view them differently and we often separate them out. Look at sports, where so many of us bond in our youth. Men are often physically superior, and participate in different, often more violent sports. "

I took that to mean that the intended audience "we" (the readers) were only men. The same with the comment about sport and men being physically superior. I raised the issue that in sports where dexterity and body awareness are paramount (such as gymnastics) men are not "physically superior", and that the very real physical advantages that women have are discounted. This was one of a few examples in the editorial where the embedded assumptions are that maleness is the norm and what we do well is superior.

As far as sex in the workplace goes, there is nothing to talk about. Just because I am a man and work with a woman in the same workplace does not mean that I am free to make sexual overtures to her. That isn't how it works in real workplaces and yes, I work in pure IT with women technicians. Honestly I am baffled how anybody who has worked with women can think anything else given the changes in the modern corporate environment and severely 'career limiting' consequences of acting like an adolescent.

This is really what I met when I moved into IT a decade ago after a decade working with the poor and disadvantaged - absolutely rampant, piggish machismo. I worked on farms and in shearing sheds when I was young and never ran across this level of strutting. Ever since then I have consciously attempted to counter this sort of attitude because it not only makes the environment unpleasant for women, it makes it unpleasant for me.

DavidL Hall of Fame Points: 3582 More actions · Answer 2

As far as sex in the workplace goes, there is nothing to talk about. Just because I am a man and work with a woman in the same workplace does not mean that I am free to make sexual overtures to her. That isn't how it works in real workplaces and yes, I work in pure IT with women technicians. Honestly I am baffled how anybody who has worked with women can think anything else given the changes in the modern corporate environment and severely 'career limiting' consequences of acting like an adolescent.

I have worked in perhaps 10 different companies, in 4 different countries, on 3 continents. I cannot remember a company where there were not people dating, courting, marrying, divorcing. In each of those companies employees were expected to behave as adult professionals in the workplace.

Dan Guzman - Not the MVP Hall of Fame Points: 3757 More actions · Answer 3

Agreed gtho.

I think the largest factor is maturity. If we all acted as adults, and focused on getting our jobs done, and helping those around us when we can, none of this would be an issue. And that's true of both genders.

And though it SEEMS to be getting better, I have little doubt there are many places were none of the above happens.

SQLMD Right there with Babe Points: 764 More actions · Answer 4

I think there are two conversations going on here. The first being "Is it OK to treat people unfairly based on gender?" and I think everyone here has shown they believe this is a resounding "no".

The second conversation is "Are men and women different and are we going to act differently towards each other because of this?" I think the answer is "yes." I don't think we can help it and I don't think we should really want to. Most of the articles written in this series talked about how having diverse view points is a good thing and I agree. I don't think we can have these diverse points of view without admitting that we think a little differently.

TravisDBA SSCoach Points: 15780 More actions · Answer 5

VinceV (10/8/2010)

Indeed. Fairness is key. Unfortunately, many businesses do not put that principle to practice.

One of the first things my father told me when I was old enough to understand it was "Son, the world is not fair. The sooner you get that and just deal with it, the better off you will be." Turns out he was right not only in the world, but in business, in love, and in just about most things. It's unrealistic to go through life, or business for that matter, with "rose colored" glasses on. It's not the real world. As long as there is human nature in the equation, things will never be totally "fair" in business or life.:-D

"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"

Dan Guzman - Not the MVP Hall of Fame Points: 3757 More actions · Answer 6

TravisDBA (10/12/2010)

VinceV (10/8/2010)

Indeed. Fairness is key. Unfortunately, many businesses do not put that principle to practice.

One of the first things my father told me when I was old enough to understand it was "Son, the world is not fair. The sooner you get that and just deal with it, the better off you will be." Turns out he was right not only in the world, but in business, in love, and in just about most things. It's unrealistic to go through life, or business for that matter, with "rose colored" glasses on. It's not the real world. As long as there is human nature in the equation, things will never be totally "fair" in business or life.:-D

Equality is probably more relevant. So long as everyone is treated equally unfairly. 😀

david_wendelken SSCrazy Points: 2388 More actions · Answer 7

Steve Jones - SSC Editor (10/11/2010)

Tobar (10/11/2010)

Men and women communicate differently. That is not going to change. We all need to speak and understand the "foreign" language of the other sex. I did not hear anyone advocating for women to speak "men", but that view might have been limited by the "language" 🙂 I speak.

It wasn't in this discussion, but in one or two of the others. Someone was really pushing for women to change the way they approach, even changing speech patterns.

I suspect you were referring to comments that I made.

I didn't "push" for women to change.

I related the results of an experiment that I conducted based upon a study on differences in "male" vs. "female" speech patterns.

I also noted that I use both speech patterns and try to pick the one that I think will work best for the audience I'm dealing with.

I will add one additional observation.

"Control what you can control, influence what you can influence, and deal with the rest."

I cannot, for the most part, control how others act.

I can only control how I act.

I am not the center of the universe, the world does not revolve around my wants, no matter how right, reasonable or fair they might be.

Any strategy that will only work if others agree to change is a flawed strategy because you can't control whether it works, you are abdicating your power to others.

So, when it comes to communication, how the audience wants to communicate is the most important issue if I want to successfully communicate with them. If I just want to feel self-righteous in the midst of my communication failure, I can communicate using any approach I want. But if I want my communication to be successful, I have to communicate in terms that the audience will understand and accept.

Is that fair?

Doesn't matter.

It just is.

It's the way the universe works.

There's a great saying from a movie character, "Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!"

It's a much better life strategy than "Stay in your rut! Don't change! Pout!"

If I'm giving examples to military folks, I use military analogies.

If I'm giving examples to house-spouses, I use analogies about the home and kids.

If I'm giving examples to managers, I talk time, money, risk, benefits.

Ditto for any other group I'm dealing with. I change how I express my ideas to fit my audience's level of skill, knowledge, interests, world-view, etc.

I don't change my ideas, nor my beliefs.

I just choose different ways to explain them, ways that those I'm trying to communicate with are more likely to understand and accept.

The following concept is really, really important to understand.

As long as you define the problem as "the other person is to stupid, bigoted or unreasonable", you are powerless. There is no pill that you can slip into their morning coffee that will make them smarter, less bigoted, or more reasonable.

Once you define the problem as "I have failed to make my point successfully", you have the power to make progress. Because once you do that, you can try different ways to get your point across until you find one that works.