July 30, 2014 at 9:10 am
djackson wrote:
But that is how Nazi governments work. "We'll show those evil citizens not to mess with us!"
It's definitely a slippery slope, Dave. I don't have the intelligence or the experience to know exactly where to draw the line on State power, but I do know when I see excessive force being used.
July 30, 2014 at 9:14 am
GoofyGuy (7/30/2014)
djackson wrote:But that is how Nazi governments work. "We'll show those evil citizens not to mess with us!"
It's definitely a slippery slope, Dave. I don't have the intelligence or the experience to know exactly where to draw the line on State power, but do I know when I see excessive force being used.
I disagree with you on intelligence. That is not a measure of our ability to draw lines. Experience I can agree with if you believe that (I don't know your experience).
That said, clearly there are too many instances of our government abusing power. Maybe not as bad as most others, but beyond what our constitution allows. I missed this until you pointed it out. They did not need to conduct a raid like this to prove what he did, they were making a point.
Given that a recent raid resulted in flash grenades landing on a baby, and the gorillas that invaded the (incorrect) home refusing to allow the mom to save her child, few can argue our government acts in the best interest of the people.
Dave
July 30, 2014 at 9:21 am
GoofyGuy (7/30/2014)
Eric M Russell wrote:If this guy had played his cards right, he could have been seen as a hero and gotten a promotion (perhaps replacing the whomever is currently head of IT security at the university). Instead he mucked it up big time.
He definitely didn't handle matters well at all, although I wonder if he would have been given any time at all to meet with the university president, as you had suggested he should have sought. But he didn't ask, that's for certain.
One thing about the story does disturb me, and that's having the door to one's home kicked in and one's possessions ransacked by the FBI. I'm not sure there is a more respectful, less violent way to obtain information and materials against a crime suspect; but I still feel one's home should remain inviolate against the power of the State, except in the most dire circumstances.
It is interesting to consider how fine the line is between being a "hero" versus being the "villian", between crisis and opportunity. One small action or misphrased sentence can put everything that happened up to that point in an entirely different context.
When confronted with a situation like this, folks really need to stop and think before taking some drastic action. The need to run their ideas past friends as a reality check, or maybe even hire a lawyer to seek advice or act as an intermediary.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 30, 2014 at 9:25 am
Eric M Russell wrote:
It is interesting to consider how fine the line is between being a "hero" versus being the "villian", between crisis and opportunity. One small action or misphrased sentence can put everything that happened up to that point in an entirely different context.
Indeed; and once elements of the media get involved in reporting the story, the context may change further (or be omitted altogether).
Certainly your suggestion of a 'reality check' is a very good one. It's hard to be objective about reality, when all one occupies of it are a few inches between the right and left ears.
July 30, 2014 at 9:28 am
djackson wrote:
... few can argue our government acts in the best interest of the people.
We need a return to the precepts of America's founding. Personal liberty is in the best interest of the people, and government is its servant - not its master.
July 30, 2014 at 9:44 am
Whether it's a frustrated IT professional wanting to raise awareness to an issue, or a law enforcement officer serving a search warrant, folks need to put their emotions aside and respect the process. Don't put innocent people in harms way just to make a point; that's not being heroic; that's being a villian.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 30, 2014 at 9:45 am
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"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Eric M Russell (7/30/2014)
Whether it's a frustrated IT professional wanting to raise awareness to an issue, or a law enforcement officer serving a search warrant, folks need to put their emotions aside and respect the process. Don't put innocent people in harms way just to make a point; that's not being heroic; that's being a villian.
I agree with you. If the process fails, try to find another, reputable process to follow. For example, if the company doesn't respond, and it relates to a law being broke, contact the authorities. If it isn't illegal, but people are at risk, maybe it is appropriate to contact the media. Maybe.
The hard decision is when you work for the government, and the government is violating the law. There are no easy answers there. Hopefully this type of corruption can be exposed without putting people at risk.
Dave
August 6, 2014 at 4:55 am
GoofyGuy (7/30/2014)
djackson wrote:But that is how Nazi governments work. "We'll show those evil citizens not to mess with us!"
It's definitely a slippery slope, Dave. I don't have the intelligence or the experience to know exactly where to draw the line on State power, but I do know when I see excessive force being used.
I'm not sure that you can rely on any one individual body to maintain any kind of line forever in perpetuaty for while an organisation may start out as legitimate its mandate may be corrupted.
Its a long running problem written about by the Romans among others.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
or
Who guards the guards?
I think the best that you can do is set up a variety of bodies with comparitive but opposing viewpoints and let them watch each other. Hence the UK with the Lords the Commons , the monarchy, the law and freedom of the press.
Someone steps out of line it is for the others to step up.
It is always worrying when governments legislate to increase their powers while decreasing the powers of opposing bodies. Stalin did it completely
August 6, 2014 at 9:26 am
Dalkeith wrote:
I think the best that you can do is set up a variety of bodies with comparitive but opposing viewpoints and let them watch each other. Hence the UK with the Lords, the Commons ...
The Lords is being 'reformed' to the point its political viewpoints will likely be little different from those of the Commons.
August 6, 2014 at 9:43 am
GoofyGuy (8/6/2014)
Dalkeith wrote:I think the best that you can do is set up a variety of bodies with comparitive but opposing viewpoints and let them watch each other. Hence the UK with the Lords, the Commons ...
The Lords is being 'reformed' to the point its political viewpoints will likely be little different from those of the Commons.
Unfortunately quite true. Balance sacrificed in the name of democracy.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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