January 10, 2009 at 12:16 pm
george sibbald (1/10/2009)
Jack Corbett (1/10/2009)
george sibbald (1/10/2009)
excuse my ignorance, I'm a Brit, and I have seen references to 'VC guys' throughout this thread. Whats one of them?VC - Venture Capital.
cheers Jack (and Lynn). Guess I should have worked that out, but I never got involved in .com bubble and the companies I have worked for are way too big to need that sort of capital investment!
I was actually like Lynn and yourself at first, then I got it by context. Sometimes I Google the TLA's or other acroynms while reading a thread so I can figure it out.
Jack Corbett
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January 10, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I can't believe I read this entire thread.
It seems to me that everyone (some more than others) will judge by appearance at times. What matters is whether you care enough to change your appearance.
January 10, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Jack Corbett (1/10/2009)
george sibbald (1/10/2009)
Jack Corbett (1/10/2009)
george sibbald (1/10/2009)
excuse my ignorance, I'm a Brit, and I have seen references to 'VC guys' throughout this thread. Whats one of them?VC - Venture Capital.
cheers Jack (and Lynn). Guess I should have worked that out, but I never got involved in .com bubble and the companies I have worked for are way too big to need that sort of capital investment!
I was actually like Lynn and yourself at first, then I got it by context. Sometimes I Google the TLA's or other acroynms while reading a thread so I can figure it out.
Jack, that's exactly how I finally figured it out. I also Google the TLA's, but sometimes it isn't just TLA's that people need to explain. Different industries also have technical jargon that may not make sense to people in other industries. That also needs to be explained to help the understanding of problems or even ideas.
January 10, 2009 at 12:33 pm
matt stockham (1/10/2009)
I can't believe I read this entire thread.It seems to me that everyone (some more than others) will judge by appearance at times. What matters is whether you care enough to change your appearance.
Okay Matt, I must be in a weird state of mind at the moment because the first thing that came to my mind when I read the first sentence in your comment was an old Alka-Sheltzer commercial: "I can't believe I ate the whole thing."
January 10, 2009 at 12:38 pm
What I wear on a particular day depends on what I'm doing. I personally detest skirts and I haven't worn one since highschool (where it was required uniform) and the only jacket I own is my university colours blazer
If I'm meeting my colleagues, it'll be jeans and t-shirt (often a logo'd one). They'll be dressed much the same.
If I'm meeting with clients, I'll go semi-formal and try to look smart, not because the client requires it (my one colleague shows up at meetings in jeans and a shirt), but because I don't feel right meeting with clients when dressed for a meeting with friends.
If I'm just working at the PC all day, it's whatever I pull out of the wardrobe and frequently I'll still be in my pyjamas at lunch time
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 10, 2009 at 3:59 pm
And Gail wears a nice, pressed hakima for throwing her favorite editor around 🙂
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January 10, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Hakima? Which martial art? Mine's aikido, and in terms of dress code, our dojo has two uniforms - the white ghi, and the white ghi top with hakima once you've earned the first black belt. Other than black and white, we don't have colored belts. There's no requirement to wear the hakima once you've earned it though, and it often goes by the wayside in the summer heat.
Often someone entering the dojo will not know which person on the mats is the instructor, if several of the black belts are in attendance and they're all wearing their hakimas.
Hint: look for the shortest female adult in the room; that's probably our sensei. I can't think of anyone shorter than her except a few of the kids. Alternatively, look for the one tossing people around like bits of paper, with a big grin on her face. That'd be her. (Not that we're not all grinning and laughing most of the time; most fun martial art I've ever been involved with.)
Steph Brown
January 11, 2009 at 1:36 am
Stephanie J Brown (1/10/2009)
Hakima? Which martial art?
Aikido
Mine's aikido, and in terms of dress code, our dojo has two uniforms - the white ghi, and the white ghi top with hakima once you've earned the first black belt. Other than black and white, we don't have colored belts. There's no requirement to wear the hakima once you've earned it though, and it often goes by the wayside in the summer heat.
Exactly the same here, except the hakama are not considered optional after reaching shodan. It can be a bit unpleasant in the middle of an african summer.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 11, 2009 at 10:22 am
There's a nice dojo in Seattle I went to with Gail. Likely that will be a yearly stop at PASS. Anyone's welcome to join us.
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January 11, 2009 at 3:51 pm
I saw a cool experiment conducted by some psychologists on TV the other day. They set up mock job interviews, both the interviewer and the applicant were subjects and were told to act as if it were a real interview. After the interview the subject doing the interviewing was asked if they would be likely to employ the person they had interviewed. The interviewees were given either a cold drink or a hot drink to hold in the elevator on the way to the interview - warming or cooling their hand. Those with the cool hands were dramatically less likely to get the hypothetical jobs
The sad reality is that people make judgements about you based on appearance and other things that have no relation to how good an employee you are, but only until they get to know you better.
It never occurred to me that Steve's T-shirt made him look unprofessional, but apart from HR people who has the time to think about that kind of thing?
January 11, 2009 at 4:22 pm
mtucker (1/11/2009)
The sad reality is that people make judgements about you based on appearance and other things that have no relation to how good an employee you are, but only until they get to know you better.
I'd qualify that by saying SOME people make judgements based on appearance or other things. Obviously none of the regulars on the site really thought much about it. But then, we weren't necessarily looking to hire Steve, and his picture isn't on a job application - it's on an informal newsletter for professionals. And he dresses the same way many of us do, so we wouldn't necessarily notice or comment (unless we got bored and wanted to start a "hot" discussion, 'cause now we know...). 😛
I've seen all kinds of dress styles in my years, and I simply ignore them - I'm interested in the skills we're hiring. If I was looking for a natty dresser for a job, I'd put it in the requirements. Then if they showed up in t-shirt and shorts, I'd actually know something about them - like they don't read well.
Cold hands, warm hands, it makes no difference to me. I should skip over someone because they might have circulation problems? That's discrimination in my book, and has no place in the hiring process. As long as those cold fingers can type code, specs, etc, I'll be happy to put them to work if the person attached can do the job!
Steph Brown
January 11, 2009 at 4:39 pm
The intriguing point of the cool hand/warm hands psychology experiment was that the effect was entirely unconscious. The interviewers explained their choices not to employ those with cool hands in the usual ways (skills, personality etc), they noticed nothing about the temperature of the hands of the applicants.
January 11, 2009 at 5:01 pm
mtucker (1/11/2009)
I saw a cool experiment conducted by some psychologists on TV the other day. They set up mock job interviews, both the interviewer and the applicant were subjects and were told to act as if it were a real interview. After the interview the subject doing the interviewing was asked if they would be likely to employ the person they had interviewed. The interviewees were given either a cold drink or a hot drink to hold in the elevator on the way to the interview - warming or cooling their hand. Those with the cool hands were dramatically less likely to get the hypothetical jobs
Correction:
It was the interviewers who were given the hot or cold drink to hold before the interview, not the applicants. There was no handshake. The effect was not related to the warmth of the hands of the applicants. The effect WAS related to whether or not the interviewer had experienced a sensation of warmth or cold immediately before the interview.
This type of effect is called 'priming', and is not only about warmth/cold but can be brought about by hearing certain words, or seeing certain images as well. And there we were thinking we were rational beings in control of our own decisions!!!
January 11, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Stephanie J Brown (1/11/2009)
mtucker (1/11/2009)
The sad reality is that people make judgements about you based on appearance and other things that have no relation to how good an employee you are, but only until they get to know you better.I'd qualify that by saying SOME people make judgements based on appearance or other things...
Well the evidence is that everyone does it. And by that I mean decades of clinical evidence and centuries of empirical evidence. Everyone's judgement is affected by and influenced by things that they not only cannot control, but in most cases are not even consciously aware of.
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January 11, 2009 at 6:06 pm
RBarryYoung (1/11/2009)
Stephanie J Brown (1/11/2009)
mtucker (1/11/2009)
The sad reality is that people make judgements about you based on appearance and other things that have no relation to how good an employee you are, but only until they get to know you better.I'd qualify that by saying SOME people make judgements based on appearance or other things...
Well the evidence is that everyone does it. And by that I mean decades of clinical evidence and centuries of empirical evidence. Everyone's judgement is affected by and influenced by things that they not only cannot control, but in most cases are not even consciously aware of.
Of course we all make judgments based on appearance, some of us put more weight on it than others. It has taken me several years to moderate the emphasis I put on appearance. I think any of us would choose the person most like us in appearance when there is an apparent equality in skills and experience.
The key thing is to dress appropriately for the job. If you are dealing with clients or the public you probably should dress more business-like (no jeans, collared shirt) and refrain from wearing you tongue, lip, and nose rings, and cover your tattoos. If you are pulling network cable, jeans and a t-shirt.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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