August 15, 2011 at 8:14 am
djackson 22568 (8/15/2011)
SanDroid (8/15/2011)
If you would like to learn more or take action here is a link.(link removed)
Just because someone makes a movie doesn't make it true. ....
There has been some documented dishonesty in 'Gaslands' including the methane contaminated water... they neglected to point out that problem had been documented there since the 70s, as an unfortunate natural situation.
To steer this more On Topic to the issues of ethics, there are plenty of document cases of ethics issues where advocacy groups, including environmental, social, religious, health, political use misleading information, cherry picked information, statistics from inadequate or nonrepresentative samples to push an agenda. It's not just corporations (though money can be a big temptation),
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
August 15, 2011 at 8:22 am
A completely recoverable resource, managed by the sun's rays causes all water to cycle through our environment - yet people shouldn't use as much?
That is oversimplified. If you are a household, with a septic system and using biodegradable soap, that is one thing. If you are pulling water from aquifers and putting it in soda bottles and shipping it thousands of miles, that's different. Or if you are dumping who knows what into it, or letting it runoff your chemical soaked field and sending it down the Mississippi into the dead zone near New Orleans, that's different.
August 15, 2011 at 8:28 am
THANK YOU STEVE, I knew there was a reason I like you. Using ethics to make a decision far outweights the morally corrupt "ya, but it's not illegal".
August 15, 2011 at 8:40 am
katesl (8/15/2011)
If you have $75000 annual income ethical, no path to grow that income, and one-time opportunity for $1 million bonus not-so-ethical-- what would you do?
No. Haven't had the $1mm, but have had the six figure chance. Didn't do it.
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August 15, 2011 at 8:43 am
Mary.Stephens 54133 (8/15/2011)
THANK YOU STEVE, I knew there was a reason I like you. Using ethics to make a decision far outweights the morally corrupt "ya, but it's not illegal".
*blush*
Thanks.
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August 15, 2011 at 8:50 am
WolforthJ (8/15/2011)
The obvious problem is knowing what a soul is.
In my mind, this is your ethical/moral boundary. I can't decide that for you, and different beliefs/religions/etc draw a different line in their values.
In my mind, being able to sleep at night without worry, being comfortable explaining your actions to your wife/kids/parents are good measuring sticks for determining if you are selling your soul or not.
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August 15, 2011 at 9:09 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/15/2011)
In my mind, being able to sleep at night without worry, being comfortable explaining your actions to your wife/kids/parents are good measuring sticks for determining if you are selling your soul or not.
That's a good measuring stick, if those people used similar measures and were decent people. There is plenty of evidence for what happens when that chain is broken due to war or other circumstances. Not to stray too far into anthropology, but much of the history of Silicon Valley involves young unmarried men and some companies were successful due to incorporating "adult supervision".
August 15, 2011 at 9:27 am
djackson 22568 (8/15/2011)
SanDroid (8/15/2011)
katesl (8/15/2011)
If you have $75000 annual income ethical, no path to grow that income, and one-time opportunity for $1 million bonus not-so-ethical-- what would you do?Report the ethics vilolation to my manager and/our HR. Fill out a Corporate Ethics violation report detailing the incident. Saving the planet ...is worth more than any job or any bonus. 😎
Except we now have proof that the unethical have been lying about what is required to save the planet, so be careful who you trust. Further, are you suggesting if you got a job at a sewage plant you would quit because dumping treated sewage into rivers is bad? I agree with your other points, but your comment supports the concept that everyone has their own view of what is right and wrong.
What I was saying is that it is everyones responsibility and right to take action against unethical behavior at work. Your ability to take action without reprisal is protected by international laws.
I did not mention quiting gainfull employment. I also did not mention the conduct of those that hide behind a Lie and call it ethics. I do agree with what you have said is not good, but they where not my points.
Also, I would not take the job at the sewage plant to begin with.
August 15, 2011 at 9:59 am
Good article, and I'm sure it's going to stir a lot of debate. I take exception with the premise of the article though (and with most of the post that seem to follow this same concept): As I interpret the editorial, you're saying that it's more important to be ethical than to get rich. Most of the posts also discuss variations on the same theme that "I'd rather make $75k / year and keep my soul than make $1M and compromise my morals". You're forgetting that we're all human though...
Every day, you compromise your professional morals and standards. Did you take a gig making less than you wanted, and you're still working at it? Compromise. Are you working for an oil company, but you're an Obama voter? Compromise. Do you work for a major corporation that owns several coal mines but drive a Prius? Compromise. Did you work lead on a facial recognition tracking database for an African nation, but you're a US citizen registered to the Libertarian Party? Compromise. Do you consider yourself to be a "good, law-abiding citizen", but were speeding on the way to work this morning? Compromise.
Every day, we prove ourselves hypocrites. Sure, you may make the occasional stand by refusing to do some contract work for Planned Parenthood or the Catholic Church, but let's say you invented the next great tracking widget for tracking your child. It's a great idea, and results in a 100% safe recovery rate for all missing and abducted children. You are a national hero. Your company becomes worth $500M. Now let's say that our ally Canada wanted to expand the system into their nation, and that they MANDATE that every person must receive this tracking widget, and that the government will manage the tracking system and database. Their logic is that it will reduce to 0 the number of people lost in the wilderness in the winter time. It will have the side benefit of increasing your corporate wealth from $500M to $20B; even Gates and Jobs are jealous of you. You suspect that the Canadians will likely use it for tracking citizens in all their activities and will use the tech for the worst kind of intrusive surveillance, but you can't prove it. Do you still go through with the deal?
I would. Know why? My product will do more good than harm. Still having pangs of conscience? Donate your profit to the charity of your choice.
In the end, we're all whores. We can pontificate about how we have standards, but in the face of true Avarice, our morals become as firm as warm Jell-o, and as we all know, there's always room for Jell-o.
August 15, 2011 at 10:28 am
jgoeson (8/15/2011)
Every day, you compromise your professional morals and standards. Did you take a gig making less than you wanted, and you're still working at it?....
In the end, we're all whores. We can pontificate about how we have standards, but in the face of true Avarice, our morals become as firm as warm Jell-o, and as we all know, there's always room for Jell-o.
I think there's a fundamental difference between making a cause a litmus test and adhering to a moral standard. Taking a job making less isn't necessarily a compromise of your ethics or morals. If you're still there, perhaps your outlook has changed or there are other benefits.
Life isn't a single axis along which we can make choices. On balance, however, I would hope you make the choices that result in a great good (whatever that definition is). There are plenty of people that make decisions for the lesser good, meaning their own welfare, at the expense of what they believe, or even how they would want to be treated.
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August 15, 2011 at 10:36 am
Jack Corbett (8/15/2011)
katesl (8/15/2011)
If you have $75000 annual income ethical, no path to grow that income, and one-time opportunity for $1 million bonus not-so-ethical-- what would you do?Stick at 75k and look for a new job. As soon as a boss asks me to do something unethical, I'd be looking for new work, but that department or company is going to be in trouble at some point.
This is a good editorial. I think it's important to know what you believe and why, then live it. It isn't easy and everybody blows it at some point, but the real measure is how you respond when you do blow it.
I believe along the same lines. I'm not willing to sacrifice my self for something as flimsy as bad ethics.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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August 15, 2011 at 10:39 am
I don't necessarily disagree with you on your argument against life being a single axis of morality, Steve. If we are smart and keep open minds, then we should be adjusting our moral compasses with each new bit of information.
You mentioned "the greater good". This is as fluid as the aforementioned warm Jell-o. Which Greater Good shall we use? Put a Catholic priest, a Rabbi, and a Muslim Cleric in a room (disregard the obvious punchline for a minute), and you will still have 3 different definitions of "Greater Good".
Let's use that example of the tracking technology I mentioned. In my opinion, the Greater Good is served by my willingness to take the Canadian contract. Yes, the govt will likely use it for nefarious purposes 40 times in a year, but 200 kids will come home safe in the same year. I can assuage some of my guilt over the 40 "bad" uses of my technology by donating a bunch of money to Amnesty International. At the same time, Amnesty International may be incredibly offended by the 40 abuses of my technology and hold me accountable for those 40 abuses since I'm the guy who invented the tech AND sold it to the Canadians, but I bet my $20M / year donation will make them a bit less vocal against me. Are they violating their morals by accepting my "blood money"? Yes. Can they do a great deal of good with it? Yes. Is the Greater Good served? In my opinion, yes, but 100 people will have 100 different opinions.
Warm Jell-o. It's all warm Jell-o.
August 15, 2011 at 10:56 am
jgoeson (8/15/2011)
Are you working for an oil company, but you're an Obama voter? Compromise.
How is this a compromise or contradiction when the Oil and Gas companies (aka: Energy Lobbists) helped elect Obama?
If we are all whores should we let Pimps beat, rob, and rape us or do we do something.
Compromise <> Selling your Soul
Corporate Employee <> Whore
August 15, 2011 at 11:04 am
SanDroid (8/15/2011)
jgoeson (8/15/2011)
Are you working for an oil company, but you're an Obama voter? Compromise.How is this a compromise or contradiction when the Oil and Gas companies (aka: Energy Lobbists) helped elect Obama?
If we are all whores should we let Pimps beat, rob, and rape us or do we do something.
Compromise <> Selling your Soul
Corporate Employee <> Whore
We can debate how we ended up with Obama all day, but that's not the point. To use your formula style: "Whore <> Prostitute". I've always referred to account reps at the staffing companies as "my pimp" when I've been a contractor, because it's the simplest definition of the relationship. That being said, I don't accept beatings.
I think you're taking my metaphor a little too literally and missing the bigger point: our morality is always subject to change, and is often more pliable when we are offered something that we really want. Your prime motivation may be a stronger platform from which to misinterpret written meanings, and mine may be a nicer home theater system, but when offered "what we really want", all of us grow soft on our morals in most cases.
All better?
August 15, 2011 at 11:14 am
jgoeson (8/15/2011)
SanDroid (8/15/2011)
jgoeson (8/15/2011)
Are you working for an oil company, but you're an Obama voter? Compromise.How is this a compromise or contradiction when the Oil and Gas companies (aka: Energy Lobbists) helped elect Obama?
If we are all whores should we let Pimps beat, rob, and rape us or do we do something.
Compromise <> Selling your Soul
Corporate Employee <> Whore
...
Your prime motivation may be a stronger platform from which to misinterpret written meanings...
All better?
Umm.... No. 😛
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