August 6, 2008 at 2:00 am
Yes, I have a doubt.
Other that what's the reason you guys do not read what I write... my doubt is: what a big pile of rubbish!!! from which paralell Universe you all come from?
Reading your posts gives me a very nice feeling of job security 😎
By the way, I'm officially giving up on you all. Have a nice and productive life and please, stay away from my databases 😛
Actually my databases are safe, you would never -in a zillion years pass the first over-the-phone screening interview, even with my most Junior guy.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 6, 2008 at 2:03 am
PaulB (8/6/2008)
Yes, I have a doubt.Other that what's the reason you guys do not read what I write... my doubt is: what a big pile of rubbish!!! from which paralell Universe you all come from?
Reading your posts gives me a very nice feeling of job security 😎
By the way, I'm officially giving up on you all. Have a nice and productive life and please, stay away from my databases 😛
Actually my databases are safe, you would never -in a zillion years pass the first over-the-phone screening interview, even with my most Junior guy.
:hehe:
I wouldn't like to touch you database for a million $$$.
😉
By the way, ask you Junior DBA how would he make a full reorg of a database? What opions are there in the Oracle documentation?
Find the subject in the Oracle documentation and post it here, I would like to know what you discovered.
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14238/preup.htm#BABFHFIJ
Oracle® Database Upgrade Guide
10g Release 2 (10.2)
Export/Import
Unlike the DBUA or a manual upgrade, the Export/Import utilities physically copy data from your current database to a new database. You can use either the Oracle Data Pump Export and Import utilities (available as of Oracle Database 10g) or the original Export and Import utilities to perform a full or partial export from your database, followed by a full or partial import into a new Oracle Database 10g database. Export/Import can copy a subset of the data in a database, leaving the database unchanged.
The current database's Export utility copies specified parts of the database into an export dump file. Then, the Import utility of the new Oracle Database 10g release loads the exported data into a new database. However, the new Oracle Database 10g database must already exist before the export dump file can be copied into it.
When importing data from an earlier release, the Oracle Database 10g Import utility makes appropriate changes to data definitions as it reads earlier releases' export dump files.
Richard.
August 6, 2008 at 3:43 am
Let me summarize your "concepts"...
Exp/Imp based backup strategy?
Daily Cold Backup?
Daily Cold/Hot Backup followed by full Export?
Full Database Reorg?
At first sight I would say -very politely: "what a pile of crap!!!"...
but on a second sight I would say...
OMG! :w00t: I got you Richard, you are a Minor League player.
Can you even tell the four components that make up an Oracle database?... your backup file set has to include all of them if you want to recover man. Tell me how many and which you do "backup" doing an export... did you say "one"? exactly! 😛
As one of my mentors used to say years ago "...things start to get interesting over 5TB and 99.999 up-time SLA".
Not your fault but if you do not adjust your mind set you are going to get trapped in your beautiful and issue less small world. Ain't nothing wrong about that but... you know 😉 if you want to stay there don't come out pretending you are a major league player.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 6, 2008 at 4:09 am
PaulB (8/6/2008)
Let me summarize your "concepts"...Exp/Imp based backup strategy?
Daily Cold Backup?
Daily Cold/Hot Backup followed by full Export?
Full Database Reorg?
At first sight I would say -very politely: "what a pile of crap!!!"...
but on a second sight I would say...
OMG! :w00t: I got you Richard, you are a Minor League player.
Can you even tell the four components that make up an Oracle database?... your backup file set has to include all of them if you want to recover man. Tell me how many and which you do "backup" doing an export... did you say "one"? exactly! 😛
As one of my mentors used to say years ago "...things start to get interesting over 5TB and 99.999 up-time SLA".
Not your fault but if you do not adjust your mind set you are going to get trapped in your beautiful and issue less small world. Ain't nothing wrong about that but... you know 😉 if you want to stay there don't come out pretending you are a major league player.
PaulB, maybe we misunderstood each other, you maybe said you cannot restore a database from a full export, so I merely tried to explain one of the ways and maybe you misunderstood me.
When I restore a database it is always from a backup, the export is used as a last resort only and usually I use it to refresh a test database.
In the end - backup a database and restore the database from a backups - this is the only proper way to do it.
I just posted export/import as an example that it can be done this way. So I did not want to expand the post by stating my database is 10MB and yours is 5TB, so what do we do next? I maybe misunderstood you that you said this is impossible. However a full import was many times used to fully reorganize a database not only by me, but by some of my colleagues on production systems. And I agree it would be cumbersome to make a full import of 5TB, whatever.
Forgive me, I hope you are not so rude in your real life as you seem from your posts. If you are a professional, then your posts don't look like that.
This is a discussion forum, a place to share views, not to show off like you do. You maybe took my posts too seriously.
Whatever the outcome, any new person working with Oracle or MS-SQL will have to read the documentation first before he makes any decisions and consider his options depending on the size of the database and backup options, devices, etc.
Have a nice day,
Richard.
August 6, 2008 at 5:19 am
Dear PaulB,
Other that what's the reason you guys do not read what I write... my doubt is: what a big pile of rubbish!!! from which paralell Universe you all come from?
Reading your posts gives me a very nice feeling of job security
So following is a piece of your own writing and shows how rashly you are driving your claim of 'knowing all'. You can sure get a traffic ticket if you keep driving like this.
Oracle does not considers exp/imp a form of backup, just a tool to move data around like you would do via BCP in the SQL Server world.
While the truth is:
You cannot equate BCP to exp/imp. One quick reason is exp/imp is to move data between Oracle databases while BCP is an ETL tool. The counterpart of BCP in the Oracle is the good ol' SQL*loader. This is the primitive tool that Oracle has got while SQL Server has far more sophisticated DTS and SSIS which can be programmed to do a lot of ETL automations.
Let us supplement each other knowledge not accuse unjustly.
-----------------------------------------------------------[font=Arial Black]Time Is Money[/font][font=Arial Narrow]Calculating the Number of Business Hours Passed since a Point of Time[/url][/font][font=Arial Narrow]Calculating the Number of Business Hours Passed Between Two Points of Time[/font]
August 6, 2008 at 5:34 am
Dear Ehsan --
Firstly I'm not saying I know everything. I'm saying I know what a Oracle backup is and what a Oracle backup is not.
Secondly. You are correct, I was wrong about BCP stuff which was utely irrelevant in the discussion but, saying BCP is a ETL tool is kind of overated, isn't it?
Don't you think the old and good DTS -whatever the name they have now - is closer to a ETL tool than BCP is?
Have you ever seen what "informatica" alike products can do in the ETL arena?
Going back to the Oracle Backup thread... was I corect all the way or not? say it! yes I was! 😎
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 6, 2008 at 9:52 am
Dear PaulB and Richards,
Both of you deserve kudos for sharing such valuable info.
Just to add my two cents:
The DTS which was part of SQL Server 2000 is now called SSIS (SQL Server Integration Services) from SQL Server 2005.
BCP also does almost the same task as DTS but it is a command based tool so lacks some features. The good thing is that all thes 3 are part of SQL Server database itself, unlike the warehousing tools provided by Oracle or the Informatica which is a 3rd party tool.
I found SSIS very useful to migrate data between Oracle to SQL Server and vice versa specially when the databases contain non English language data.
-----------------------------------------------------------[font=Arial Black]Time Is Money[/font][font=Arial Narrow]Calculating the Number of Business Hours Passed since a Point of Time[/url][/font][font=Arial Narrow]Calculating the Number of Business Hours Passed Between Two Points of Time[/font]
August 7, 2008 at 1:47 am
The DTS which was part of SQL Server 2000...
DTS was introduced on 7.0
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Dear Friend,
what does sybtax?/ if u meant syntax// .
there are two types of backup.. hot and cold , alright
Using RMAN (recovery manager) which is a oracle utility used for especially backin and restoring purposes.
connect to Rman as "SYSDBA"
One more thing you should set the archive log start before you take the back up, otherwise you will encounter an error.
syntax:
rman> Backup "database name";
August 8, 2008 at 9:44 am
correct... correct... incorrect.
damn, you failed in the last one. You can take backups using RMAN even if you have set your database to NOARCHIVELOG mode. That's the beauty of RMAN, it does it all.
By the way, Thank you for supporting me. You couldn't even imagine what I have to fight to make clear such a simple concept 😉
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 11, 2008 at 11:27 pm
hi
to take bakup of oracle databae, use file starting with 'imp' . It must be residing in 'bin' folder inside the folder containing oracle.
August 12, 2008 at 1:55 am
shiwani2002sg (8/11/2008)
hito take bakup of oracle databae, use file starting with 'imp' . It must be residing in 'bin' folder inside the folder containing oracle.
I see... you didn't even bother in reading the thread, huh?
... on top of it, are you suggesting to use import to "take a backup", nicely done 😀
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.August 14, 2008 at 6:41 am
Ummm, "imp" for a backup? I don't think so.
For a true Oracle backup, please re-read Paul's messages. An Oracle dump file created from the export utility is not a true backup, you cannot recover a database solely from an export.
After years of doing hot backups, I finally discovered RMAN is the way to go.
August 22, 2008 at 9:02 am
Hi All,
just to add some info - I personally would not recommend not backing up a database and using a full export instead.
However anyone who attended and Oracle course Backup and Recovery should have learned that Oracle recommends using both methods.
Physical backups - we know why.
As for a full export, there are a few reasons why it should be done on a daily basis along with a physical backup.
One of the reasons - you may encounter "corrupted oracle blocks". You should use "dbverify" as part of your backup strategy on a daily basis and read/check the log file produced. When you run into "currupted oracle blocks" you may find yourself in a position when you will have an invalid backup, because any physical backup reads blocks together with the ones that are corrupted. So even if you do recover a database from a backup, you will still recover it with a currutped block. You may be lucky if your data is not yet there.
I will not write about all the techniques provided by Oracle how to recover your data once you encounter the "corrupted block" problem. That's a long story. However, a full export can come in handy, because the export utility uses (without the setting DIRECT=YES) SQL to read the data and does not read physical blocks. So if your data does not find itself in the "corrupted area", you will be able to recover a table.
A full export is also a good way of detecting a "corrupted oracle block", however it's not the best idea, because once Oracle detects this situation it's very often is too late. An export will exit with an error just as if you would run a SELECT on a table where your data is in the "corrupt area".
So do use "dbv" to check your database files. From Oracle8i you do not need to shut down your database to do that.
There is also another site, where you can read about the migration process, just follow this link and read "Our Upgrade Strategy". Export/import is one of a way of upgrading databases. No one can say it's not a valid backup, because in that case a full export is considered as good as a valid backup.
http://www.dbspecialists.com/files/presentations/case_study_10g.html
As you can I am not the only one who invented this method.
Another story from the past. I once experienced a serious bug in version 7.1.6. An Oracle system cluster was currupt in one of my production databases. Whenever I tried to run a huge DELETE or a TRUNCATE TABLE command, the database instance would crash and it would no longer start. I had to recover the database to a point in time just before my huge DELETE.
Oracle support sent us a patch and told us the only way to fix this problem was to recreate the database from scratch, we were told to do the following:
1) Shutdown the database, startup restrict
2) Perform a full export.
3) Shutdown abort
4) Install the patch for that version of the db server.
5) Recreate the database
6) Perform a full import to restore the database.
I wouldn't discuss whether this is possible in a database with 1TB of data, I only remember back then that it took 9 hours to restore the tiny database compared to the ones I have now.
Regards,
Richard.
August 24, 2008 at 11:37 am
I once experienced a serious bug in version 7.1.6
Do you still remember something that happened on version 7.1.6? :w00t:
Man, you have the memory of an elephant!... was it around 1995?
Oracle has changed so much over the years that you can hardly recognize anything under 7.3.4 as a Oracle database anymore -I personally wouldn't suggest any stone-age method to be applied on present day environments. 😉
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 46 total)
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