March 3, 2017 at 3:18 am
SQLRNNR - Friday, March 3, 2017 1:12 AMA bit pedantic but the two authentication methods are Windows Authentication and SQL Server authentication.If we omit the "SQL" then we have a confusing term in "Server Authentication" which can really mean just about anything including Windows Authentication.
This will be even more important to distinguish with SQL Server vNext on Linux where there is no Windows Authentication. If you say Server Authentication on a Linux box, would you be talking about your authentication to the Linux Server or to something else?
Good info on the differences between Windows Authentication and SQL Authentication have already been provided so I won't go into any more depth on that other than a key difference will be in where the source of the login is (windows or SQL Server) and where/how the password for each is stored/encrypted.
If you use SQL Server authentication, can you still give rights to groups?
March 3, 2017 at 3:23 am
larsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:18 AMIf you use SQL Server authentication, can you still give rights to groups?
No, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 3, 2017 at 3:27 am
GilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:23 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:18 AMIf you use SQL Server authentication, can you still give rights to groups?No, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.
Ok, thanks. That was how I understood it.
March 3, 2017 at 3:30 am
larsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:27 AMGilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:23 AMNo, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.Ok, thanks. That was how I understood it.
So, can I give the same role to several login and users so it behaves like a group? Say if I have a role of doctor?
March 3, 2017 at 3:37 am
larsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:30 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:27 AMGilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:23 AMNo, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.Ok, thanks. That was how I understood it.
So, can I give the same role to several login and users so it behaves like a group? Say if I have a role of doctor?
Yes, that's the point of a role.
It doesn't behave like a group. A domain group allows any member of that group to log in, add new members to the group and they automatically get to log in without needing to be added explicitly as logins.
Assigning a role to a login gives that login the permissions associated with a role. A login can be assigned to multiple roles.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 3, 2017 at 3:41 am
GilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:37 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:30 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:27 AMGilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:23 AMNo, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.Ok, thanks. That was how I understood it.
So, can I give the same role to several login and users so it behaves like a group? Say if I have a role of doctor?
Yes, that's the point of a role.
It doesn't behave like a group. A domain group allows any member of that group to log in, add new members to the group and they automatically get to log in without needing to be added explicitly as logins.
Assigning a role to a login gives that login the permissions associated with a role. A login can be assigned to multiple roles.
Ok, got it. Thanks!
March 3, 2017 at 4:48 pm
larsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:57 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:40 AMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 1:38 AMOh, the good old "Google is your friend"I know this of course but you go to a forum hoping they can give a brief explanation and not the massive text you get when you google.
Now you have wasted my time by making me think you had a good answer and you wasted your own time providing it...
But a Google search is not a waste of time. While I agree that searching through forum-answer after forum-answer can certainly be a waste of time, MS has all of this documented and learning to use Google to find the answers to such questions is incredibly important because a lot of the answers that you might get by asking on a forum can and frequently will be 1) less than adequate or 2) incorrect.
Using the lookup that Eirikur provided leads to a page where the second entry is the official MS documentation that not only identifies what they are and what the differences are, but some of the advantages and disadvantages of both are. You usually won't get such detailed information by asking a question on a forum. Once you've studied such a thing then, by all means, ask a question if the MSDN or TECHNET article caused some confusion for you.
Here's the link I'm talking about.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144284.aspxI see your point.
My point is that most are well aware that you can google. You can asume that they have indeed googled before posting on a forum.
It only takes a second to google.It will probably take some time to get an answer on a forum. Maybe you forgott your password or have to register first.
After taking the time to do this you wait, hoping someone will give you some help. "Google is your friend" is not that help.. Also, the person posting that answer is probably well aware that I know that Google is my friend and is only making a (pointless) point. So they waste my time when I check this obvious answer.
All some "experts" in forums do is to enjoy pointing out the obvious it seems.
Sometimes they say. "You have to provide us with more detail or we can't help you"
I give the details and the person requesting this has nothing. They probably had no insight from the start but are only making a pointless point.
So did the link I provided help you?
--Jeff Moden
March 3, 2017 at 11:21 pm
Jeff Moden - Friday, March 3, 2017 4:48 PMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:57 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:40 AMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 1:38 AMOh, the good old "Google is your friend"I know this of course but you go to a forum hoping they can give a brief explanation and not the massive text you get when you google.
Now you have wasted my time by making me think you had a good answer and you wasted your own time providing it...
But a Google search is not a waste of time. While I agree that searching through forum-answer after forum-answer can certainly be a waste of time, MS has all of this documented and learning to use Google to find the answers to such questions is incredibly important because a lot of the answers that you might get by asking on a forum can and frequently will be 1) less than adequate or 2) incorrect.
Using the lookup that Eirikur provided leads to a page where the second entry is the official MS documentation that not only identifies what they are and what the differences are, but some of the advantages and disadvantages of both are. You usually won't get such detailed information by asking a question on a forum. Once you've studied such a thing then, by all means, ask a question if the MSDN or TECHNET article caused some confusion for you.
Here's the link I'm talking about.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144284.aspxI see your point.
My point is that most are well aware that you can google. You can asume that they have indeed googled before posting on a forum.
It only takes a second to google.It will probably take some time to get an answer on a forum. Maybe you forgott your password or have to register first.
After taking the time to do this you wait, hoping someone will give you some help. "Google is your friend" is not that help.. Also, the person posting that answer is probably well aware that I know that Google is my friend and is only making a (pointless) point. So they waste my time when I check this obvious answer.
All some "experts" in forums do is to enjoy pointing out the obvious it seems.
Sometimes they say. "You have to provide us with more detail or we can't help you"
I give the details and the person requesting this has nothing. They probably had no insight from the start but are only making a pointless point.
So did the link I provided help you?
Yes, it was good information. Thanks!
March 4, 2017 at 6:18 am
larsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 11:21 PMJeff Moden - Friday, March 3, 2017 4:48 PMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:57 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:40 AMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 1:38 AMOh, the good old "Google is your friend"I know this of course but you go to a forum hoping they can give a brief explanation and not the massive text you get when you google.
Now you have wasted my time by making me think you had a good answer and you wasted your own time providing it...
But a Google search is not a waste of time. While I agree that searching through forum-answer after forum-answer can certainly be a waste of time, MS has all of this documented and learning to use Google to find the answers to such questions is incredibly important because a lot of the answers that you might get by asking on a forum can and frequently will be 1) less than adequate or 2) incorrect.
Using the lookup that Eirikur provided leads to a page where the second entry is the official MS documentation that not only identifies what they are and what the differences are, but some of the advantages and disadvantages of both are. You usually won't get such detailed information by asking a question on a forum. Once you've studied such a thing then, by all means, ask a question if the MSDN or TECHNET article caused some confusion for you.
Here's the link I'm talking about.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144284.aspxI see your point.
My point is that most are well aware that you can google. You can asume that they have indeed googled before posting on a forum.
It only takes a second to google.It will probably take some time to get an answer on a forum. Maybe you forgott your password or have to register first.
After taking the time to do this you wait, hoping someone will give you some help. "Google is your friend" is not that help.. Also, the person posting that answer is probably well aware that I know that Google is my friend and is only making a (pointless) point. So they waste my time when I check this obvious answer.
All some "experts" in forums do is to enjoy pointing out the obvious it seems.
Sometimes they say. "You have to provide us with more detail or we can't help you"
I give the details and the person requesting this has nothing. They probably had no insight from the start but are only making a pointless point.
So did the link I provided help you?
Yes, it was good information. Thanks!
Excellent. Ironically, since I got that from Eirikur's Google search link, that means the Google search worked very quickly and the "Google is your friend" recommendation was a sound one. 😉
--Jeff Moden
March 4, 2017 at 7:45 am
Jeff Moden - Saturday, March 4, 2017 6:18 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 11:21 PMJeff Moden - Friday, March 3, 2017 4:48 PMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:57 PMJeff Moden - Thursday, March 2, 2017 8:40 AMlarsp777se - Thursday, March 2, 2017 1:38 AMOh, the good old "Google is your friend"I know this of course but you go to a forum hoping they can give a brief explanation and not the massive text you get when you google.
Now you have wasted my time by making me think you had a good answer and you wasted your own time providing it...
But a Google search is not a waste of time. While I agree that searching through forum-answer after forum-answer can certainly be a waste of time, MS has all of this documented and learning to use Google to find the answers to such questions is incredibly important because a lot of the answers that you might get by asking on a forum can and frequently will be 1) less than adequate or 2) incorrect.
Using the lookup that Eirikur provided leads to a page where the second entry is the official MS documentation that not only identifies what they are and what the differences are, but some of the advantages and disadvantages of both are. You usually won't get such detailed information by asking a question on a forum. Once you've studied such a thing then, by all means, ask a question if the MSDN or TECHNET article caused some confusion for you.
Here's the link I'm talking about.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144284.aspxI see your point.
My point is that most are well aware that you can google. You can asume that they have indeed googled before posting on a forum.
It only takes a second to google.It will probably take some time to get an answer on a forum. Maybe you forgott your password or have to register first.
After taking the time to do this you wait, hoping someone will give you some help. "Google is your friend" is not that help.. Also, the person posting that answer is probably well aware that I know that Google is my friend and is only making a (pointless) point. So they waste my time when I check this obvious answer.
All some "experts" in forums do is to enjoy pointing out the obvious it seems.
Sometimes they say. "You have to provide us with more detail or we can't help you"
I give the details and the person requesting this has nothing. They probably had no insight from the start but are only making a pointless point.
So did the link I provided help you?
Yes, it was good information. Thanks!
Excellent. Ironically, since I got that from Eirikur's Google search link, that means the Google search worked very quickly and the "Google is your friend" recommendation was a sound one. 😉
Ha, ha. I knew you say that, but that was only one of the three questions and in my opinion the easiest one.
And even if you could find good information in a google search I would expect some new insight in a specialized forum like this...
March 4, 2017 at 8:07 am
You got that, as well. 😉 Glad everything ultimately worked out. Despite the occasional excursion to LMGTFY and occasional frustration on both sides of a given thread, I've found that most people on this site are pretty helpful.
--Jeff Moden
March 4, 2017 at 8:32 am
Jeff Moden - Saturday, March 4, 2017 8:07 AMYou got that, as well. 😉 Glad everything ultimately worked out. Despite the occasional excursion to LMGTFY and occasional frustration on both sides of a given thread, I've found that most people on this site are pretty helpful.
Yes, I got alot of good help here.
In one way I can understand that people are tired of to simplified questions and I was guilty of that too.
However, lazy or not, I think a LMGTFY is a slap in the face for someone coming to a forum. Maybe the one who asks a question has too little knowledge to be able to understand the results from google. Maybe they are completely lost and is hoping for a friendly answer.
Sometimes you read in forums that people say "sorry for this stupud question". Then someone might reply that there are no stupid questions. A LMGTFY-answer suggest that there are indeed stupid questions and don´t you dare to post something here if you are not sure it is a well thought-out question.
A standard answer from a technical site isn't always easy to understand. It's like you are a teacher and instead of explaining the topic you just say "look at this site".
If you suspect it is a student only looking for easy solution why not ask for the reason for the question or ask for more detail. It doesn´t take more time than a LMGTFY-answer.
March 4, 2017 at 3:31 pm
Correct and agreed on all points. LMGTFY is hilarious... until you're on the receiving end and you really need some help.
--Jeff Moden
March 5, 2017 at 6:45 am
So here is a good example why a google search isn't always the best choice.
At first it seems quite clear; login give you access to a server and a user to a database. But as you read on it gets more complicated.
Anyway, is it like this:
Login give you access to the server. Login can be Windows Authentication or SQL Server Authentication.
You doesn´t need a separate username and password to access SQL Server if you use Windows Authentication.
However, you still need to be added as a user to a database to be able to access it? Does that mean that that use the same username and password as with Windows or doesn't need one at all?
March 5, 2017 at 7:02 am
GilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:37 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:30 AMlarsp777se - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:27 AMGilaMonster - Friday, March 3, 2017 3:23 AMNo, because there are no groups in SQL authentication. You can still give rights to roles (server and database) and you can still assign roles to the login and its mapped users, but groups are a domain concept.Ok, thanks. That was how I understood it.
So, can I give the same role to several login and users so it behaves like a group? Say if I have a role of doctor?
Yes, that's the point of a role.
It doesn't behave like a group. A domain group allows any member of that group to log in, add new members to the group and they automatically get to log in without needing to be added explicitly as logins.
Assigning a role to a login gives that login the permissions associated with a role. A login can be assigned to multiple roles.
Sorry but need a little more explanation:
If I am added to the role doctor, I can login as doctor with all rights the doctor-role have?
If I am added to the group doctors, I can do the same. Login as doctor with all is right.
The differens is that I cant´t give the role of a doctor to another user even if I have that role. If I belong to a group of doctors I can invite someone to our group, and that person have the same rights as the rest of the group?
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