July 23, 2010 at 8:53 am
OCTom (7/23/2010)
Jusr what we need. Another acronym. 😛Steve, you mentioned that it can be difficult. What about ROWE can be difficult?
A few things.
First, as much as you might not think it's the case, it can be hard to find things to do at times. Especially if you're used to the structure of someone else giving you tasks. There are times that you know there is something else, but either you can't remember or just can't think of it. There are lots of people that like the structure of being told what to work on next.
Second, it can be hard to organize, at least for me as a sole ROWE worker. I think this might be easier for someone in a company where tasks or deliverables might be given. I know that I need to get xxx done for each day's newsletter, but it can still be hard at times to put that into batches, track it, get it all out the door in a timely manner.
Motivation can be an issue as well. While this is exciting at times, and is at the beginning, it wanes and I find myself looking for motivation at times. That might be more a telecommuting issue, but even in an office, if you tend to work solo too often, you'll miss some of the water cooler talk, especially if your friends are on different schedules.
There's also guilt. At least for me. If you take the afternoon off to do something else, even if you plan on making it up, it can make you feel a little guilty about letting down the rest of the people you work with. Or if you leave when something is hot, it's hard.
It can be hard to stop working as well. If you set your own schedule, and you are motivated, it can be hard to figure out when to stop each day or week.
There's more, but these are some of the major things that I've seen.
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July 23, 2010 at 9:25 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/23/2010)
It can be hard to stop working as well.
Hmm, never had that problem. 😉
July 23, 2010 at 9:26 am
TravisDBA (7/23/2010)
[\quote]
I think your managers are confusing telecommuting with ROWE. A few comments on your notes:
•Flexible work hours - Some people take advantage, some don't. I bet you have people taking advantage now, while they're in the office, slacking off. You don't have to make ROWE for everyone. Let them know that the lack of results, means the lack of freedom.
•Higher employee satisfaction : This is just a crappy managerial philosophy. Not sure what you do here. If you don't give a crap about employees, why should they give a crap about your company, or your job. They'll undermine you when they can.
•Truly gives employees a work-life balance : Short sighted. When people are happier all around, they do more work. Give the idiot a copy of Drive by Dan Pink.
•No more measuring clock time : Not true. Consultants are often out of the office, and measure time. You are somehow assuming that time-in-office = time-recorded. You can still require time tracking.
•Less administrative paperwork : Again, this isn't true. Same amount of paperwork.
•Find out right away which employees aren’t pulling their weight : If you can't tell this from the results, you are an idiot and not qualified to be a manager.
•Less stress for employers and employees : If you have emergencies every day, or often, then you'd need more people on site. However ROWE doesn't mean not-onsite. It means that employees manage this. Best Buy is considering this for retail stores. It doesn't mean that they won't have staffing, but that the manager will decide that we need xx people, or yy people in Video Games and it's up to the employees to develop the schedule for themselves.
We had this type of scheduling in restaurants I worked in. We were fairly free to switch shifts, but we couldn't get anyone to switch with anyone. We had high performers and low ones, and if you were in one category, you couldn't necessarily switch out with someone in the other category because we needed a certain number of high performers to handle the load.
•Output measurement is harder for some jobs when people are off-site and come and go as they want.
- Incorrect. It's different, but you still measure things. If you produce widgets, we can still measure that, and you have to be there some of the time. Again, ROWE is not off-site.
•Management can be challenging when most of your people are off-site, or not all together at the same time.
- Agree, but that means managers have to do more than just walk around looking at cubes or offices.
•Many managers and people have a harder time working with people without face-to-face interaction. This is a real big one for alot of managers.
- Agree, but again, better manager skills. I've managed people in another state and had to learn new skills.
•Employees that don't have the self-discipline to hold themselves accountable for getting their work done can take advantage of this quickly. Managers can't fire half their staff that takes advantage of this, and people do take advantage of this.
- You are assuming that people will do this. Studies have shown that lots of people want to get their jobs done. They want to be productive. Plus you can revoke ROWE privileges for people that don't get results. That's the idea. Results are what count and you are responsible, and accountable, for results. It's not a free for all.
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July 23, 2010 at 9:32 am
WolforthJ (7/23/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (7/23/2010)
It can be hard to stop working as well.Hmm, never had that problem. 😉
I bet you have. At least some times. If you're here trying to learn things, or participate, I bet you've had issues stopping at times. I do all the time.
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July 23, 2010 at 10:03 am
Ha-ha. I've been working under the older version of ROWE for years.
It's a work plan that is called "commission".
Very results based orientation. And the payoff is, the more "projects" you complete, the more results you get. You get to juggle short term and long term projects all at the same time. Hours vary. Travel included. Some fellow employees get kicked out of the office every morning just to be on their own all day long.
Fail to produce in a timely fashion will result in failure to eat, pay the rent or buy the kids new shoes.
Down side is the tether to the smart phone one must carry at all times.
July 23, 2010 at 10:16 am
Smart phone or smart smoke signals up in Alaska?
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July 23, 2010 at 10:18 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/23/2010)
Smart phone or smart smoke signals up in Alaska?
IMHO, who gives a crap? I'll surgically implant a smart phone to live up there...
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"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
July 23, 2010 at 10:35 am
I said carry, not use. Believe it or not, there are some places here about the size of Texas that do not have coverage of any kind. Sadly, that is changing. Even the community based pay phones (1 and only phone per village) are being removed this year. Cell phones have replaced them.
But any phone you carry in Alaska still means you are here and that is smart. The choice to use it is all yours. Especially with an 80 lb King on the line or a big brownie staring you down. Reaching for a smart phone may not be the most intelligent move at that point.
Unless it has a 44 mag app.
July 23, 2010 at 10:44 am
Bob Hoffman-209065 (7/23/2010)
I said carry, not use. Believe it or not, there are some places here about the size of Texas that do not have coverage of any kind. Sadly, that is changing. Even the community based pay phones (1 and only phone per village) are being removed this year. Cell phones have replaced them.But any phone you carry in Alaska still means you are here and that is smart. The choice to use it is all yours. Especially with an 80 lb King on the line or a big brownie staring you down. Reaching for a smart phone may not be the most intelligent move at that point.
Unless it has a 44 mag app.
Is that when you toss the 80 lb King to the big brownie and hope all goes well? 😉
July 23, 2010 at 11:34 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/23/2010)
TravisDBA (7/23/2010)
Every manager I have ever asked about ROWE did not like it. Here is what some of them had to say about ROWE:[\quote]
I think your managers are confusing telecommuting with ROWE. A few comments on your notes:
•Flexible work hours - Some people take advantage, some don't. I bet you have people taking advantage now, while they're in the office, slacking off. You don't have to make ROWE for everyone. Let them know that the lack of results, means the lack of freedom.
•Higher employee satisfaction : This is just a crappy managerial philosophy. Not sure what you do here. If you don't give a crap about employees, why should they give a crap about your company, or your job. They'll undermine you when they can.
•Truly gives employees a work-life balance : Short sighted. When people are happier all around, they do more work. Give the idiot a copy of Drive by Dan Pink.
•No more measuring clock time : Not true. Consultants are often out of the office, and measure time. You are somehow assuming that time-in-office = time-recorded. You can still require time tracking.
•Less administrative paperwork : Again, this isn't true. Same amount of paperwork.
•Find out right away which employees aren’t pulling their weight : If you can't tell this from the results, you are an idiot and not qualified to be a manager.
•Less stress for employers and employees : If you have emergencies every day, or often, then you'd need more people on site. However ROWE doesn't mean not-onsite. It means that employees manage this. Best Buy is considering this for retail stores. It doesn't mean that they won't have staffing, but that the manager will decide that we need xx people, or yy people in Video Games and it's up to the employees to develop the schedule for themselves.
We had this type of scheduling in restaurants I worked in. We were fairly free to switch shifts, but we couldn't get anyone to switch with anyone. We had high performers and low ones, and if you were in one category, you couldn't necessarily switch out with someone in the other category because we needed a certain number of high performers to handle the load.
•Output measurement is harder for some jobs when people are off-site and come and go as they want.
- Incorrect. It's different, but you still measure things. If you produce widgets, we can still measure that, and you have to be there some of the time. Again, ROWE is not off-site.
•Management can be challenging when most of your people are off-site, or not all together at the same time.
- Agree, but that means managers have to do more than just walk around looking at cubes or offices.
•Many managers and people have a harder time working with people without face-to-face interaction. This is a real big one for alot of managers.
- Agree, but again, better manager skills. I've managed people in another state and had to learn new skills.
•Employees that don't have the self-discipline to hold themselves accountable for getting their work done can take advantage of this quickly. Managers can't fire half their staff that takes advantage of this, and people do take advantage of this.
- You are assuming that people will do this. Studies have shown that lots of people want to get their jobs done. They want to be productive. Plus you can revoke ROWE privileges for people that don't get results. That's the idea. Results are what count and you are responsible, and accountable, for results. It's not a free for all.
You keep referring to "you". You need to read my original post from the beginning. I said managers I have talked to have said this, not me. I understand your points too, but dollars to doughnuts I will be willing to bet that 80-90% of managers out there right now in the IT industry would not like ROWE implemented in their departments. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 23, 2010 at 11:37 am
Sorry, I noted "your managers" at the beginning, but then started writing in "you"
I realize it's not you, and was giving answers that I'd push back to other managers as well.
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July 23, 2010 at 11:42 am
Actually, I think ROWE and agile techniques may be quite beneficial. Unfortunately, I am not in either of those environments (new employer from what I can tell uses their own methodology that looks very similar to scrum) yet.
If I was a manager, ROWE looks very close to how I would try to manage people. Set goals, objectives, requirements, deadlines and leave the rest up to them. Just be sure to have a process in place so that you at least know what is happening and when in case things have to slip.
July 23, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (7/23/2010)
OCTom (7/23/2010)
Jusr what we need. Another acronym. 😛Steve, you mentioned that it can be difficult. What about ROWE can be difficult?
A few things.
First, as much as you might not think it's the case, it can be hard to find things to do at times. Especially if you're used to the structure of someone else giving you tasks. There are times that you know there is something else, but either you can't remember or just can't think of it. There are lots of people that like the structure of being told what to work on next.
Second, it can be hard to organize, at least for me as a sole ROWE worker. I think this might be easier for someone in a company where tasks or deliverables might be given. I know that I need to get xxx done for each day's newsletter, but it can still be hard at times to put that into batches, track it, get it all out the door in a timely manner.
Motivation can be an issue as well. While this is exciting at times, and is at the beginning, it wanes and I find myself looking for motivation at times. That might be more a telecommuting issue, but even in an office, if you tend to work solo too often, you'll miss some of the water cooler talk, especially if your friends are on different schedules.
There's also guilt. At least for me. If you take the afternoon off to do something else, even if you plan on making it up, it can make you feel a little guilty about letting down the rest of the people you work with. Or if you leave when something is hot, it's hard.
It can be hard to stop working as well. If you set your own schedule, and you are motivated, it can be hard to figure out when to stop each day or week.
There's more, but these are some of the major things that I've seen.
Thanks Steve. I didn't think of the motivation issue. And, I didn't think it would be harder to be motivated over time. When I worked as an independent, I was motivated by finishing the work as quickly as possible so I could bill as quickly as possible and get paid. As an employee, though, with the regular income stream, I could see how one might get less motivated and involved.
July 26, 2010 at 8:06 am
I think we all work in a results oriented environment to one degree or another. The hard part is determining the results and how to measure them. For a DBA, if the back ups have been verified, the database never went down except for planned maintenance, and query response times remained reasonable, has he achieved the desired results? Sometimes measurements don't fit the job and sometimes jobs are hard to measure.
July 26, 2010 at 8:24 am
Not all positions are the same and one of the big problems companies have is imposing work rules on everyone that don't make sense across the board. Usually, it seems, this is because the company doesn't want to make exceptions that favor one group and disgruntle another.
For example, since Customer Service lines needs to be staffed from 8-5, the receptionist needs to be at her desk during business hours, and the help desk people need to be available during the times that everyone else is working the company imposes the "work day" of 8-5 for everyone. Even though that doesn't really make sense for sales or engineering or development.
The jobs that respond well to a ROW environment are creative jobs. Jobs where "what" is known but "how" is up to the employee and "when" is flexible enough.
It is just as much of a mistake to implement ROWE systems where they don't make sense as to enforce time clock standards where those don't make sense.
But in the end, managers are people, too. They don't like going outside of their comfort zone. They know how to rate and manage employees who are present and the don't know how to rate and manage employees who are absent.
--
JimFive
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