June 5, 2015 at 11:10 am
I agree on salary ranges and raise processes, that's easy stuff (or should be). I don't know about objective though. Every process I've seen to make things objective just tended to make everyone largely the same with the range. Maybe it can be done, but I'm not sure.
June 5, 2015 at 11:20 am
The way I see it, employees should be valued the same way realestate is valued. That is, employees should be valued based on their market scarcity and revenue generating potential. For example, a 10' by 6' curbside parking space in New York City is valued more than an undeveloped plot of land 30 miles outside the city limits that's the size of a football field. If you own a NYC parking spot, then you can start generating a steady stream of rent money tomorrow. Theoretically you could clear out the scrub brush and plant cash crops in the country field; but that requires years of development effort, and ultimately the revenue you'll receive from selling cabbages may not break even with the property taxes you'll have to pay to the county.
A professional, like a doctor or a DBA, can double their income, doing the exact same set of daily tasks, simply because they're in a position where their output is revenue generating for the organization instead of just being an operational expense.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 5, 2015 at 11:30 am
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?
June 5, 2015 at 11:36 am
What I make is between my employer and I. It's nobody's business except for the company, myself and (unfortunately) the IRS.
June 5, 2015 at 11:41 am
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?
Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 5, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
I think I'd disagree with this, especially since I am about the only real DBA in the company where I work. You could be part of a team where one of your team mates is "equal" to you in knowledge, skills, ability. If you were and found out you made 12K less than that individual, how would it make you feel?
June 5, 2015 at 12:12 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/5/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
I think I'd disagree with this, especially since I am about the only real DBA in the company where I work. You could be part of a team where one of your team mates is "equal" to you in knowledge, skills, ability. If you were and found out you made 12K less than that individual, how would it make you feel?
That's the start of the animosity and resentment that's been mentioned already. It cannot be good for the working relationship between you and that's counterproductive.
June 5, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/5/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
I think I'd disagree with this, especially since I am about the only real DBA in the company where I work. You could be part of a team where one of your team mates is "equal" to you in knowledge, skills, ability. If you were and found out you made 12K less than that individual, how would it make you feel?
I just don't see a real world situation ever happening where two people are exactly the same, same skill set, same knowledge, same personality, same past work experience etc.... where this would ever be a legitimate question.
June 5, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/5/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
I think I'd disagree with this, especially since I am about the only real DBA in the company where I work. You could be part of a team where one of your team mates is "equal" to you in knowledge, skills, ability. If you were and found out you made 12K less than that individual, how would it make you feel?
First, I would blame myself more than my employer. Perhaps it would make me feel bad briefly, but my employer would be feeling it more long term after I left for greener pasture.
Employers "should" pay equal employees equal, just like husbands "should" listen to their wives, but whether they "should be made to" pay equal through the use of law or public shaming is a different issue.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
Zartin, you're right, it's contrived, but I've worked on teams where 2 or more of us had basically equivalent skills, did about the same work.Did we get paid the same? Don't know. I suspect the ones with the longest seniority at the company made more.
June 5, 2015 at 1:20 pm
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but I figured I'd add in:
US military jobs, even civilian ones on bases, have ranks, and the pay for each rank is known to everyone, there's no mystery about how much you're getting paid for your job.
Again, we have the right to know what are soldiers make because we pay their salaries. They are my employees in that they work for me and I pay their salary. Obviously Employers should know what employees make.
The price of all the houses in Allegheny County are published on their website. Furthermore Zillow publishes the sale price of a good chunk of all the houses in America.
This, too, is public domain.
In both cases this does not make the case for disclosing people's salaries at a private company. Anyone who wishes to disclose their salary should are free to do so. People who want that info kept private should be allowed to do so as well.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
June 5, 2015 at 2:12 pm
Alan.B (6/5/2015)
In both cases this does not make the case for disclosing people's salaries at a private company. Anyone who wishes to disclose their salary should are free to do so. People who want that info kept private should be allowed to do so as well.
Actually - no it doesn't, at least not where I work. That would be a fireable offense. Pretty sure my immediate supervisor is not officially privy to either my payscale OR what bonus pool or pools I might be part of.
While I do think that disclosing everyone's salary might be problematic, I am a little uncomfortable with just taking it on faith that my employer is keeping on par with local wage scales. I would feel a LOT better if I could get some credible info on where we really fall and what the distribution actually is (i.e. what is the spread within my title/grade). This can be hard to implement, especially if the grade are specific (i.e. if there are only 2-5 people in a given grade - you might as well publish their salaries if you're going to publish statistics about the grade).
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
June 5, 2015 at 2:35 pm
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Lynn Pettis (6/5/2015)
Eric M Russell (6/5/2015)
Andy Warren (6/5/2015)
Eric, I'd agree with that. But suppose there were two of you doing that. Same job, same skills. Virtual twins. Should they get paid the same?Two of me working the same job be redundant. If there were two of me, I'd encourage one of my personalities to start working a second job. Actually, I think he already is. 😛
I think I'd disagree with this, especially since I am about the only real DBA in the company where I work. You could be part of a team where one of your team mates is "equal" to you in knowledge, skills, ability. If you were and found out you made 12K less than that individual, how would it make you feel?
First, I would blame myself more than my employer. Perhaps it would make me feel bad briefly, but my employer would be feeling it more long term after I left for greener pasture.
Employers "should" pay equal employees equal, just like husbands "should" listen to their wives, but whether they "should be made to" pay equal through the use of law or public shaming is a different issue.
And wives should listen to their husbands. Sorry, but it is true.
June 5, 2015 at 2:41 pm
Should knowing what co workers make matter? It would be nice to see if there is a pattern of inequity based on gender, age, eye color or what ever reason one group gets more than another. That would mean that salaries should be public.
On the other hand I know from experience that knowing someone I think does a terrible job makes more or even close to what someone I think does a great job bothers me, even if I am not comparing either salary to mine. I have a strong since of justice and it is just wrong when a bad employee is paid well. I am better off not knowing what I can't control. I know what I am willing to work for and what I am not. I have left it up to the company to see my worth and correct my salary if I start at too much of a bargain. I would be very uncomfortable with a company that tells me I am not allowed to share my salary with another employee if I want to. What are they hiding?
Not really an answer just thoughts on the subject.
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