September 3, 2009 at 11:51 am
I too have been in a situation where I was asked to falsify "data" (by removing certain documents) from a commision filing at a previous company. I had decided in my 20's what the answer to such a question would be - the only correct one is NO.
The filing involved how much revenue the company would be allowed to make - thus affecting the rates of millions of customers.
So when I was asked, I responded with my NO, and since I did work for the company and my job is to support them (within legal means), I told them what I WOULD be willing to do. There were, as I recall, 4 or 5 banker boxes of documents, so several thousand. And when the CEO went before the commission, he needed to be able to pull any document they requested to see out of one of those boxes - and then put it back where it belonged again! So I created a database of the documents, organized by "area", color coded (love those colored file folders), and gave him a list of the documents cross-referenced to the boxes and colors.
After the commission hearing, the CEO came to me to thank me personally for my work on the project. The commission was very impressed by their readiness, and while the company didn't get the increase they were hoping for, what they did get was an increase that was FAIR to everyone - company and customer.
There are definitely grey areas in our world, and there have been many times I've questions requests I've been given. If I can't determine that the action being requested is illegal, I have to comply with it - or quit if it bothers me that much. What I do in those cases is request it in writing, so I can't become the scapegoat. We don't always have enough information to determine legal versus illegal.
IMHO, everyone should develop a personal standard, and spend some time figuring out how they would respond to various types of questionable requests. Those who have done so actually CAN say with certainty: This is what I would do.
They have a plan.
And if you think being fired is a hardship on your family, try being in the newspapers, going thru a trial, spending all your money defending yourself, and still going to jail for several years (because you are not important enough for your company to defend you unless your a CIO or above, and they'd rather scapegoat you so their lawyers will sabotage you). You'll be lucky to have a family when you get out of jail, and your job prospects will suck.
Steph Brown
September 3, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Before joining the DBA world I was an accountant, and was asked multiple times at different companies to falsify records to make these companies look better. I'm proud to have been fired rather than participate in one scheme. I left a second company on my own when I saw evidence of falsified data. Neither of those companies exist any longer, fraud caught up to them. But I still have a career AND my reputation.
September 3, 2009 at 1:23 pm
IMHO, everyone should develop a personal standard, and spend some time figuring out how they would respond to various types of questionable requests. Those who have done so actually CAN say with certainty: This is what I would do.
They have a plan
Very well said...
I do not believe that these types of ethical questions have nearly as much gray as some seem to think... It is never right to do wrong. Decide ahead of time what you will and will not do... that way, when the situtation arises, the decision has already been made.
September 3, 2009 at 1:42 pm
The point goes back to the start of the discussion, most people would not do anything unethical personally but would we stand up for something that happens when we are not personally involved? More importantly in work environments do we consider the ambiguities that may be present while backing up someone else's cause? To me the former is clean, i would not manipulate data or do anything unethical if asked myself no matter what reason it is for or who is asking. But I do have to turn a blind eye to what others do, and that is from experience being burnt many a time. There are any number of ways peopel can find out the origins of an anonymous tip - some cases people dont even bother find out they just assume and get even. Where money is involved one has to be very careful - like trying to help harassment victims.
September 3, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I would report it and expect to lose my job.
The way I look at it, my integrity is everything and is not for sale. I don't go poking around where I don't belong and would not be a party to compromising data, even if it weren't illegal. At the end of the day, my job is to safeguard the data. If I go down for it, so be it.
Many companies have adopted a whistle-blower's protection policy, but, the reality in many places is that it depends on who you are as to which policies apply or don't. I would not expect to be spared.
It would be far easier for me to live with temporary unemployment than the knowledge that I had contributed to fraud.
September 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I think it has more complexities than that...like when you report on what you perceive to be 'fraud' and then the concerned parties make up leaving you high and dry..have seen this multiple times not once. One case the software company who had 600 copies of its unlicensed software 'made up' with the guys who were using it..another case a 'harassed' woman decided to take the money in return for 'not talking' about the issue in public..lots of stories. That is why, do what is right for yourself, dont step in for others unless you know for a fact the person is not going to shame your efforts.
September 3, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Years ago while attending Regis University for my BS degree, one of the courses I had to take was an Ethics class. Looking at things today, I think that an Ethics course should be required for all degree programs, and that such course should actually be 4 years long. Hammer it into young people until they actually understand what Ethics really is all about.
September 3, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Let's broaden this a bit. In my philosphy and ethics courses we were reminded constantly that "Legal isn't necessarily Ethical."
Ethical is also more of a generic base of accepted values by a group of people. More important is the morality of the situation - that is where the real personal hit is. Legally, one may be able to do something which is ethically questionable and morally abysmal. My point is, if we just treat this question with ethics in hand - some people may teeter on the fence about it. If we direct it to a moral perspective - most will have no question at all in their mind about what is right or wrong.
For me, I have been in the situation - about 8 yrs ago. The VP wanted me to mask some figures for an audit and then we were to change them back to the correct values. I voiced very loudly my concern about it - they decided against doing it verbally to me and then found somebody else to do it. Needless to say I no longer work there - terminated on some trumped up accusations. The legal responsibility is to report the incident to the appropriate authorities - which was done.
Doing your job...paycheck
doing your job well...bonus
Doing your job with high morals; and being able to sleep at night, see your kids grow-up and still be employed in the morning...priceless
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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September 3, 2009 at 4:20 pm
She: Gift this needs to be completed now
Gift: the math is wrong,
She: there are many mathematicians in this company
Gift: tell the mathematicians the math is wrong.
My work for more than six months was never approved, I was doing more than 90 percent of the workload in a two people team at the time, the other person's work was almost all approved.
The second incident in another company Gift this must be finished in one week and I said I need one month the math is wrong.
I will always say no if I know it is wrong.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
September 3, 2009 at 10:05 pm
GSquared (9/3/2009)
My ethics are more important to me than my paycheck.
Ditto...
I'll also add that my ethics and integrity are the reason why I have a paycheck.
--Jeff Moden
September 4, 2009 at 7:30 am
Just yesterday a friend of mine who is a DBA got severely reprimanded for doing what she thought was right. There were some programmers who wrote some bad code that inserted bad data into the databases she maintains. The problem had been around a while and never corrected since they seemed to think it was not as important enough. Yesterday she got a call from an end user asking about the bad data that kept appearing for them - she responded on email that it was due to some bad code that had not been corrected and it should not have happened. The IT guys branded her disloyal and letting down the team to end users. From her perspective it was the right thing. Her boss feels it may have been 'right' from a value based standpoint but in a highly political office environment she should have let him handle it diplomatically. So where do we go with this kind of issues? I'd like to have someone asking me to fudge data, or i have more of black and white values to deal with that i can so outright no, feel good about my own honesty and value system and blog about the bad guys out there. But majority situations are far from black and white they are like this, a conflict of different viewpoints. There is only so far you can go with it, and move on that is all if it gets unbearable. And the boss may have his two cents too, as far as handling politics goes.
September 4, 2009 at 11:40 am
Tell your friend it's time to start looking for another job. Any Database manager that would side with politics over data integrity has got their priorities in the wrong place and it will happen again, and your friend will get thrown under the bus and end up probably taking the blame and getting laid off anyway. If a company doesn't have their data integrity they haven't got doodly squat, bottom line. It's the foundation of their reputation in the marketplace. Office politics and database integrity don't always match....Being a good DBA isn't always about being a nice guy. I tell people that all the time..
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
September 4, 2009 at 11:58 am
Yeah that is what i said...and where she works is not some mom and pop shop it is one of the country's leading healthcare providers. I have seen so many of these issues that to me it is always that - move on if it does not work for you that is all. I hesitate though to say 'politics above data integrity or anything...' - politics does not go away because we don't like it and never speak your mind unless you know you are supported. In her place I would have quit without saying much and saved myself the emotional stress. People need to earn the honesty of their employees and many organisations just dont deserve it that is all.
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