January 4, 2016 at 7:50 am
Aaron N. Cutshall (1/4/2016)
BenWard (1/4/2016)
No idea if my experience is consistent with others but I've always found ASUS hardware to be pretty sturdy.I had an ASUS previously and loved it the whole time I used it, which was for about 2 years. I was making last minute adjustments for a presentation, saved my changes then shut it down for the 1 hour drive to the site where it refused to start again for the presentation! Thankfully I had presence of mind to have a backup of my slides on thumb drive and was able to use someone else's laptop! That's when I bought my MBP and I've been quite happy with it.
Ouch! Good job you took a backup 😉
I'm not a laptop user myself, always had desktop PCs for the sake of including a good quality discrete video card but may be going for a laptop soon myself - Asus was going to be my first choice. How did you find the Asus mechanically (ie construction quality, longevity/strength of screen hinges etc)? Understand you had a component failure which is obviously a big problem and inclined to dissuade one from recommending a product, but in theory 80% of the internals are supplied by other manufacturers (hdd ram etc) and aside from the possibility of poor heat management a Lenovo or any other brand is theoretically just as likely to suffer from such a failure so I'm more concerned with mechanical build quality.
I'm personally disinclined to use apple (in spite of their lovely build) due to their comparatively excessive price tags and no native Windows (I know you can use parallels/VMware but you're still limited in terms of GPU access for a Windows VM)
Ben
^ Thats me!
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January 4, 2016 at 7:51 am
Grant Fritchey (1/4/2016)
Even just running VMs from within the Mac OS crawls up my spine.
YUP! +1 here 🙂
Ben
^ Thats me!
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January 4, 2016 at 8:21 am
BenWard (1/4/2016)
I'm personally disinclined to use apple (in spite of their lovely build) due to their comparatively excessive price tags and no native Windows (I know you can use parallels/VMware but you're still limited in terms of GPU access for a Windows VM)
Not that this will make a difference for most, but you definitely CAN run Windows natively on a Mac using BootCamp (which is provide free by Apple). You just need to have a Windows license or you can run the Insiders Preview builds free if you don't have a license.
And the Cost issue depends on when you buy. If you buy right after Apple does a refresh, the cost is comparable with a similarly spec'd PC...if you don't buy soon after a refresh, then a similarly spec'd PC will most likely be cheaper.
I also chose the Mac because I was working with Solaris & *nix distributions at work, and it's nice to have native access to all the nice CLI options I'm used to.
But it really comes down to what you prefer. IMHO the only real advantage that Macs have is native iOS development, outside of that it's user preferences.
January 4, 2016 at 8:22 am
Aaron N. Cutshall (1/4/2016)
Grant Fritchey (1/4/2016)
I had such a bad experience with the Lenovo and saw everyone else having it too, I was very shy of trying the X1. Plus the price seemed awfully high. However, I'd be interested to hear if others have a different experience.Count me as an unhappy user of a company-supplied Lenovo laptop. Quite possibly one of the worst laptop's that I've ever used!
I have a company-supplied Lenovo right now and I hate it. Previous job gave me a Dell and I never had any problems with it. I also have a Gateway laptop at home and it's been a tank, surviving both food spills and the abuse of young children.
January 4, 2016 at 8:26 am
I have a Lenovo Yoga 2. I like it so much that it's pissing me off! I can't justify getting a Surface Book as long as it's working.
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January 4, 2016 at 8:35 am
My personal and after hours work PC is a two year old Lenovo N586 that I paid $350 for at the time, and it gets the job done in terms of performance and reliability. However, I also have kids who use it (and abuse it) while I'm at work. A typical issue for less expensive plastic case laptops is that the ports and screen hinges break. When moving an open laptop, young kids will sometimes grab it by the screen like a handle rather then properly folding it closed. I've had to disable the unit and super glue the power port back into the mount, and I've also had to use black duct tape on both the screen and hinges. But through it all, it continues to work as well as it did on day one.
I'm now considering the next generation of the same model. One advantage of taking the route of these inexpensive beaters on a 1 or 2 year replacement cycle is that I can salvage non integrated components like the HD, RAM, DVD drive, etc. so it's not a total wash. For example, the 4GB RAM from my old machine is combined with the 4GB on the new one for a total of 8GB, and the old HD now becomes and external backup. Also I have a spare power cord, which would have costs $50 if purchased separately.
If it were my primary 9 - 5 work PC, then I would choose something different.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 4, 2016 at 8:41 am
I read a lot here but don't post much. To this thread I have a strong opinion.
If I have one knock on Apple it is that the current generation of systems are not very upgradeable. The trade off is that the systems are so integrated, I do not expect a component failure rate anything near the industry norms (example Memory is now typically soldered and not SODIMM; not upgradeable but should not fail in itself [motherboard failure is the exception]). My recommendation is that if you buy a current generation product, get it with max'ed out. Otherwise buy a used system that can be more easily repaired.
What I can say in the positive is that in 2006 I got tired of fighting malware on my home PC (kids can't be trained to so no to malware) so I switched to an iMAC. That machine got three kids through high school (last one graduated last spring) and eliminated my pain of spending my nights and weekends fixing my Windows PC despite always keeping AV and Internet protection up to date. I used Parallels to retain compatibility with MS based software and have been able to tweak the settings and get nearly anything to run. That iMAC has gone through 4 OS upgrades since that time. In November I 'bit the bullet' and upgraded the RAM from 2GB to 4GB. With 4GB and the machine runs fine today for typical office like applications (however I'll concede that it is on an old OS (10.7) as that was the last OSX version that came in a 32bit flavor). Although there was a learning curve with the switch, once I got through that bump I've never looked back from switching to Apple.
In 2010 I added a refurbished MAC Mini to the house. That machine runs the current OSX version (10.11). Since 10.9, Apple has made OS upgrades "free" (and not for a limited time only, as MS has with Win10), although upgrade costs were very minor prior to that time.
In 2011 my daughter took a 13" MacBook Pro (i5) to college. This fall I had to fix it as there is a common failure on a drive controller cable with that specific generation of MB Pro. The hardest part was troubleshooting: a "tech" from a retail store diagnosed it as a bad drive and she paid them to have it replaced however they returned it to her w/o an OS installed. When I couldn't get the OS to recognize the new drive, I did research and discovered that this cable was a common failure. A replacement cable ($$) fixed it (BTW, the original drive turned out to be fine). This daughter is a disaster on tech equipment, and nothing we give her lasts. That MBP runs very well on the original 4GB of memory and the latest OS version even though it is now nearly 5 years old. A memory upgrade would be simple but for her current use does not seem warranted. As I said she is hard on the equipment and the outside aluminum case looks like crap but the actual system runs fine.
This year my youngest daughter took a 2014 13" MacBook Pro (i5) to college.
Everyone I know that has a MAC (know many people in and outside work) would never go back to a PC. I know many software developers who use MBP for their development platform.
The street price on my 9 yo iMAC is $450 (20% of purchase). The street price on my Mac Mini is $500 (70% of purchase; both are Core 2 Duo machines). I've owned personal computers since 1987 and I've never had a computer that has retained so much residual value over time. Maybe that is because Mac buyers are suckers, but it could also be because Mac buyers are willing to pay more for older hardware since it still has lots of usefulness.
My company will only buy Dell (went so far last year as rejecting Surface Book due to "vendor relationship") however if they allowed us to choose, I would go MBP in a heartbeat. My experience is Apple hardware it is more expensive up front but has lower TCO over time. I'm sure some will disagree but IMO MACS tend to have higher quality hardware. When you compare system specs side by side, you'll find cost is not as out of line as it might appear at first glance.
Bottom line: My small dataset conclusion is that MACS cost more, last longer. but retain their value much better than OEM Windows PCs. They aren't perfect but they are really good computers.
January 4, 2016 at 9:02 am
michael.l.gardner (1/4/2016)
Not that this will make a difference for most, but you definitely CAN run Windows natively on a Mac using BootCamp (which is provide free by Apple).
That's good to know - I had thought this was a warranty no-no but I guess not if it's apple's own software that enables it?
michael.l.gardner (1/4/2016)
Cost issue depends on when you buy. If you buy right after Apple does a refresh, the cost is comparable with a similarly spec'd PC...
I've never noticed this myself - but then I don't ever buy the top of the range or the 'latest' product. Windows machines (or rather their components) come down in price as they age, whereas apple just refresh their hardware so they're always at the upper end of the price scales, whether you're looking at low-end, mid-range or top-end stuff.
michael.l.gardner (1/4/2016)
I also chose the Mac because I was working with Solaris & *nix distributions at work, and it's nice to have native access to all the nice CLI options I'm used to.
I hear you there. First thing I install on a new work PC is gnuwin32 🙂
Ben
^ Thats me!
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January 4, 2016 at 9:27 am
Grant, I've been using Parallels on my MacAir since I bought it. Works well, though battery life suffers. Its an i7/8G. Not industrial strength, but reasonable. I can't say that I love or hate the Mac OS. I "use" it much more of a consumer compared to what I know about Windows, but so far that has worked out fine. Most of the stuff I use runs in VM's. First class hardware.
January 4, 2016 at 9:27 am
I have a surface pro, it's great for what I want it for. It's a fully functional computer that is also mobile. Despite any of the hate MS gets for windows 10 I think they did a very solid job creating an OS that is as functional as a standard laptop and can be used a tablet. I think apple really shot itself in the foot when they split their OS between development between mobile and desktop and that's going to hurt them in the future.
January 4, 2016 at 9:32 am
ZZartin (1/4/2016)
I think apple really shot itself in the foot when they split their OS between development between mobile and desktop and that's going to hurt them in the future.
I rather have to agree with you there. I do see a convergence between the two (OS/X and iOS) but I think it won't be for quite a few years.
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January 4, 2016 at 10:26 am
Kind of sad to hear that Toshiba isn't the sterling laptop vendor they once were.
January 4, 2016 at 10:37 am
Walter Levy (1/4/2016)
Kind of sad to hear that Toshiba isn't the sterling laptop vendor they once were.
Steve & I bought the same model about a month apart. Mine is older and is sitting on my desk chugging away with a new VM being installed on it as I type this, also on the same machine. It's working great and has held up to 14 months on the road with no issues (so far, knock wood). On the other hand, Steve's seemed to just fall apart. It's weird, because of the two of us, I've usually had a lot more problems. Based on my experience, 9 months from now, if this thing starts to fail, I might consider another. The price point was a lot better than many of the competitors, and it has held up. I'm just not sure if I'm lucky this time or if Steve was unlucky.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 4, 2016 at 10:39 am
Andy Warren (1/4/2016)
Grant, I've been using Parallels on my MacAir since I bought it. Works well, though battery life suffers. Its an i7/8G. Not industrial strength, but reasonable. I can't say that I love or hate the Mac OS. I "use" it much more of a consumer compared to what I know about Windows, but so far that has worked out fine. Most of the stuff I use runs in VM's. First class hardware.
I had a Mac for about 6 months. The hardware is glorious. I had to give it up because we switched to HyperV (of course, now, we've switched back to VMWare, so...). I did give it up fairly willingly though because I had such a hard time with the OS. It just behaved weirdly. However, I didn't try setting it up to boot to Windows. If I ever find myself back on a Mac machine, I may do that.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
January 4, 2016 at 12:20 pm
newintellectual (1/4/2016)
I suggest broadening your search and taking a close look at a loaded Apple Macbook Pro, as many developers have done. High quality hardware (though better to add your own RAM, which is easy and shaves several hundred from the Apple price of the RAM.)You can run Windows as a VM in Parallels, which permits OS X to be used as well, but you can also make it boot directly to Windows.
On my list. The ability to virtualize OSX is desirable.
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