September 18, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Regarding feelings of guilt about leaving, it's not necessarily directed toward the company but rather for co-workers who have become friends. As for the company itself, consider that the average employee has probably been in the organization for more years than the average executive manager. If you've lost interest in your job, then chances are your boss and the next two or three managers up the organization chart have been updating THEIR resume too.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 18, 2015 at 12:58 pm
I agree with Dave and Chrisn.
Accept or decline the new job, but I wouldn't use it as leverage.
If you do accept, give a fair amount of notice and leave on great terms with your existing employer as you never know if you'll need to come back. (Switching jobs is a risk and it's not shameful if it doesn't work out).
As a counter point to the article, I'd also like to add: don't accept the first offer that comes along. Truly assess the job you're being offered. A higher salary that leaves your career stagnating isn't a good move.
Leonard
Madison, WI
September 18, 2015 at 1:08 pm
I don't recall where I read this advice, but it is some of the best I have ever seen.
Never, ever accept a counter offer.
First, you were leaving for a reason. If it was money, you probably negotiated in good faith and they refused. Therefore they will continue to refuse to pay the next time you are reviewed. There is no reason to believe an employer that abuses their employees will suddenly say "Oh, John was right, we need to pay all of our employees market rates!"
Second, assume you were given a counter offer of $12,000 more. That is $1,000 per month. How long will it take to find your replacement? Even given 3 months, and a $24,000 difference, that only costs them $6,000 to be able to kick you to the curb at their convenience. Since they were abusing you before the counter, why would you expect them to not do so after you proved they were in the wrong?
Third, people talk. Most of the country is rural. I am not sure about most of the people, but the odds are pretty good that the HR staff in your new employer that you used to obtain the counter, is going to share your name at every get together they attend. Your name will mean "do not employ" for quite a while. Even if you live in an urban area, how many companies are there where you would want to work? You just eliminated one, and probably others.
Lastly, you decided that the new offer was worth leaving for. You made that decision for (hopefully) more than one reason. New challenges, new opportunities, compensation, benefits, et cetera, are all things that sold you on the offer. Your old employer most likely was insufficient in many of those areas. Why would you even discuss a counter? The only reason that comes to mind is greed, and that isn't a good reason to stay.
Dave
September 18, 2015 at 1:34 pm
I don't necessarily agree with those who say don't use an offer as leverage or say don't accept a counter. I think it depends on the situation. If you are actively pursuing new opportunities because of some dissatisfaction then don't use it as leverage or accept a counter.
If you approached by someone in your network with a better opportunity, you should talk with your current employer about and let them know why you are considering it. This may lead to a change in your current position with either more money, change in responsibility, or perks like telecommuting. To me this is just being open with your current employer and, yes, using the new offer as leverage, but leaving is the only leverage an employee has.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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September 18, 2015 at 1:45 pm
Its not always about leverage. You get an offer, you accept, you give notice - they make you an offer because they want you to stay. You can accept or decline, but you have to consider that they might value you enough to try to keep you. Thinking it through ahead of time helps you understand why you're leaving/why you might or might not stay.
September 21, 2015 at 8:57 am
Eric M Russell (9/18/2015)
.. Staying or going isn’t about loyalty, it’s about what is best for you and you can measure that in any way you want – money, vacation, or anything else. Stay with a company while your interests are aligned, have a conversation if those interests start to diverge, and move on when it’s time. Do it professionally of course, but don’t avoid making a change just out of loyalty. ..
Andy, these career oriented editorials that you and Steve have been writing here for the past year coincide with a period when I was experiencing my own internal debates about changing jobs. After nine years with my former employer, I actually accepted a new position a few weeks ago. In my case a didn't matter, the reality is that I had simply lost interest in the job, felt I had reached a ceiling in terms of opportunity, and my main objective was to find a new position that I could grow and put my creative energy into. It wasn't an easy decision, changing jobs is harder later in life, and I quit mentally a hundred times before I actually started exploring other opportunities in earnest and chose to accept another offer.
Very interesting what you wrote here, Eric. It reminds me of my previous job. I liked for a few reasons. I was doing something which literally helped people. You know, the old adage from things like beauty contests, "What do you want to do in a career?" "I want to help people." However after 18 years I had basically done it all and had seen the same sort of work about 3 times. The technology changed, but the work was always the same. Also I couldn't advance at all, as I hit the ceiling in that position about 4 years into it. But the job was cushy and then there was the prospect of a pension. However, the Great Recession meant that even at a university we were loosing people, because our budget kept shrinking. My position was one of those eliminated at the end of Jun 2014, due to continued cutbacks. That experience has had a profound impact upon me. I no longer believe in "job security", because I was in a place where job security was taken for granted. At best you can say that one job may be more secure than another, but total job security is an illusion.
On a somewhat related topic, which I imagine will come sometime soon, I'd like to discuss how to guide one's own career.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
September 21, 2015 at 9:05 am
Eric, I'm glad you found some of what we wrote helpful. For me its part personal experience, part observation that I draw from to try to share ideas via editorials. I don't think I've figured it all yet - thought I often think that if I was more realistic about work I'd be more content!
September 21, 2015 at 9:10 am
Rod at work (9/21/2015)
At best you can say that one job may be more secure than another, but total job security is an illusion.
Rod,
That's a great job summing up the work world today. Even though I'm considered a permanent FTE by HR, I consider myself a contractor with benefits. They can get rid of me whenever they want and I can leave whenever I want.
I might actually put that quote in my signature.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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September 21, 2015 at 9:24 am
Jack, I hadn't framed it that well, but I'm right there with you. It doesn't preclude loyalty, but doesn't assume it either. Ideally it's close to a partnership.
September 21, 2015 at 9:56 am
Jack Corbett (9/21/2015)
... Even though I'm considered a permanent FTE by HR, I consider myself a contractor with benefits. They can get rid of me whenever they want and I can leave whenever I want...
Reading about being a "permanent FTE" in some HR manuals must be taken in full context, as you do. Especially when most HR manuals also have a section that mentions "you are an employee at will, which the company may terminate with or without cause at any time".
Kind of sucks the illusion of "job security" right out of any notion of being a "permanent FTE". 😎
The trend of companies treating people like disposable objects has been going on for decades. That's why the best approach is to continually learn, update the resume, move on, and move up at every available opportunity.
Enjoy!
Dave
September 21, 2015 at 10:26 am
Dave62 (9/21/2015)
Jack Corbett (9/21/2015)
... Even though I'm considered a permanent FTE by HR, I consider myself a contractor with benefits. They can get rid of me whenever they want and I can leave whenever I want...Reading about being a "permanent FTE" in some HR manuals must be taken in full context, as you do. Especially when most HR manuals also have a section that mentions "you are an employee at will, which the company may terminate with or without cause at any time".
Kind of sucks the illusion of "job security" right out of any notion of being a "permanent FTE". 😎
The trend of companies treating people like disposable objects has been going on for decades. That's why the best approach is to continually learn, update the resume, move on, and move up at every available opportunity.
Enjoy!
Dave
Career mobility is one of the greatest economic innovations of the 20th century.
We shouldn't allow ourselves to get too narrow sighted on considerations like seniority, pay, convenience, job security (real or perceived), or the idea that we're some sort of lynchpin that holds the organization together. The truth is that seniority means nothing if your day to day responsibilities havn't changed in years, there is always another opportunity that will pay more, job security is an illusion, and it's hubris to think someone else couldn't step into our shoes and do just as good or even better.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 21, 2015 at 11:31 am
IceDread (9/18/2015)
People don't generally leave a company if they are happy. In most cases this means that if there is any disloyalty it's usually from the employer. Thus, in most cases, the employer has failed to take care of it's employees. The exception to this that I see is that you are happy but receive an offer that makes you even more happy, to put it simply.Thus people should really not think about it as a betrayal even if many companies and bosses wants you to feel it like that, it's in their interest to make you feel like that.
I totally agree.
September 21, 2015 at 11:32 am
I have never viewed the lack of a counter offer as a downer. I have left companies for very specific reasons and expecting a counter offer sounds a bit like you are trying to play the old company against the new one to get a sweeter deal. I could never do that.
September 21, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Yeah, I don't get the whole issue with not using another offer a leverage either.
You have to understand that this not personal. This is business. You both have to work together in order to work and you both have to show one another that there is surely plenty of other fish in the sea in case of fire.
Your objective should always be to gain something out of your time working for an employer, whether that's education, experience or just a good salary. Your employer should be gaining a good worker that's going to help the business accomplish some set of goals that hopefully allows them to continue doing business.
The moment that changes, your employer should change with it. The idea that your employer should be getting everything they want and you getting nothing you want is the idea that you don't matter.
You do matter.
September 21, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Dave62 (9/21/2015)
Jack Corbett (9/21/2015)
... Even though I'm considered a permanent FTE by HR, I consider myself a contractor with benefits. They can get rid of me whenever they want and I can leave whenever I want...Reading about being a "permanent FTE" in some HR manuals must be taken in full context, as you do. Especially when most HR manuals also have a section that mentions "you are an employee at will, which the company may terminate with or without cause at any time".
Kind of sucks the illusion of "job security" right out of any notion of being a "permanent FTE". 😎
The trend of companies treating people like disposable objects has been going on for decades. That's why the best approach is to continually learn, update the resume, move on, and move up at every available opportunity.
Enjoy!
Dave
Or find a company that treats employees as investments instead of expenses 🙂
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