The Great Uproar
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Yes I wrote Christians but it could easily be applied to any religion the way he wrote it. I just find it a double standard to ask those that were upset by it to be tolerant while those that agree with it are not.
Also, I do not 'push' my views on anyone at work, nor am I overt in any way about my beliefs. I will stand up for them though.
the end
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shushy ...pffff... everyone knows steve and the rest of jedi council rock...
If they do not they probably mistook these forums as a 'public' or a mac forum.
..i'm though curious what is the data type for zillions...
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What a shame. I bet you have missed out on a lot of friendships as well with this kind of baggage. Too bad...
I wasn't born stupid - I had to study.
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Nope, I've got plenty religious friends. More so now that I've learned to not mention that I'm an atheist: despite me never talking about religion, it makes them uncomfortable just to know that I don't share their belief.
As for design and problem solving, I've found that an over reliance on faith is not sound when designing solutions--it sneaks into everything. (Those that believe in Murphy are far better suited.)
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In the US, it is unlawful to discriminate in hiring on the basis of religion, so I have no way of knowing if I have ever been denied a job due to the fact that I am a Christian. I used to be agnostic, and came to faith later in life, so I quite enjoy hearing the thoughts of those who think differently than I.
I find often that people have an intellectual pre-commitment to whatever they claim to believe/not believe in. Once you get past that, the conversations can be quite enlightening for all.
Don't write off non-atheists so quickly!
Chuck
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Sometime look up Coulomb's Law and compare it with the Theories of atomic structure. I have faith that the floor will not push a hole into itself when I make my next step...
I wasn't born stupid - I had to study.
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I suppose I should quit this industry after 30+ successful years as I'm patently (in John's opinion) unfit for the job! Maybe I'm just too old, too
A mixed set of emotions arose while reading John's post: a little sadness that his view of designing solutions is so blinkered; further sadness that his religious friends are uncomfortable when around him; chuckles because I frequently rely on God when designing solutions; more chuckles re the "Murphy" perception. John's statement that "...it sneaks into everything" is spot on! I wouldn't have it any other way! If it didn't, 'twouldn't be worth relying on in the first place...
Someone wiser than me once said (I paraphrase) that cussing is the resort of those lacking the intelligence to express their feelings in a lucid manner. Perhaps it's a bad idea to cuss, even during an interview...
As Shakespeare wrote, "...truth will out..." (Merchant of Venice) The most important thing at any interview is to be truthful. Be honest with yourself, to your interviewer and be yourself. If they hire you, "truth will out" in every way, so why be false at all (matters of faith included, should they arise)?
A question to ponder: Should a system for a Christian ministry be designed and developed by those who have no faith because those who have faith will just mess up? BTW, there's a whole bunch of us (Christians) happily designing and developing an SQL Server web solution for just such a Ministry and it works really well... 99%+ uptime since release 1 in January... and when we need consultants to code for us, the guys and gals who profess no faith are comfortable with us and us with them.
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I agree with much of what you said, SA from CA. But I do not see any malice in John's thread. I doubt he would think you unfit...
As all of us have had various kinds of experiences in life which colour (right spelling?) our views - I for one, live with three cats and I still prefer dogs...
I, too, think it is too bad that John views Christians as poor developers. But, having been one for some time now, I can see some of his point. I have known far too many Christians who do not question their beliefs and actually ponder and look up the truth. I don't read Hebrew or Greek, but I have books which translate it... I am sure you have encountered these types yourself - what is sad is, they are not exclusive to the Christian religion. Many people do not truly question their central convictions, (religious, political, etc.)...
I wasn't born stupid - I had to study.
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I managed to miss the article first time round but having read it and Steve's comments and the forum today I
wholeheartedly agree with Steve on all three areas.
Religion is a personal thing, keep it to yourself, whether it is Christian, Muslim or Atheism or... None of the pro religion replies have considered what it would be like to be on the receiving end - if you are a committed Christian would you like a Muslim or Atheist constantly evangelising their religion when you are trying to do a complex SQL job?
So many wars have been caused by religious intolerance - don't start any more.
I wouldn't swear in an interview either and prefer not to hear swearing. Also you should use the language properly, with good grammar and diction. If the interviewer can't understand you they won't want to work with you.
Words should be used in their dictionary context. I personally hate the use of such words as "Cool!" meaning "Good" and other similar phrases and I would count this incorrect communication against a candidate if two were equal.
Work is a professional thing - be professional to succeed!
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I generally work through lunch and often bring stuff home - but I also try and keep up with my co-workers. Religion has often a topic of conversation, (like politics, kids, sports, weekend fun, etc...). I have yet to have a situation where one of us is so intolerant of the other that the discussion must end... On the other hand, constant evangalism is a distraction that can cause serious problems. But that seems to be how the conversation is always couched. In my world, those are the outliers... (My history is poor, but I haven't seen a war start over a work conversation - and how is that not professional?).
My co-workers, friends, and neighbors are of all stripes and religions. I thoroughly enjoy sharing in their practices and pespectives. Is it somehow more considerate to cover my eyes and ears?
I think this is why we have such problems in this area. We have decided that we cannot have any discussion to 'solve' the problem.... In fact, this may exacerbate the 'problem'...
Yes, these are personal things, but unless we want to be an automatron, we often have personal conversations with the people we spend so many hours encountering... We have so much political correctness that most interesting conversations would be vapid if we followed these rules... Swearing? Agreed..., although I have been known to use the words to extentuate the thought...
(maybe that is just a poor excuse for not having a broader vocabulary...). But NEVER during an interview, only once I know the person well enough. Work is a professional thing - but it is also how we spend most of our time. Life is made up of controversy and if we avoid it, then we miss out on what it may have to offer us... Thank God Shakespeare was never given ridlin...
I wasn't born stupid - I had to study.
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I managed to miss the article first time round but having read it and Steve's comments and the forum today I
wholeheartedly agree with Steve on all three areas.
For those who missed the original article: How To Mess Up An Interview.
I agree on most of what he said, but I can see how people can react to how he said it. But I think some need to develop thicker skin.
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Jim P.A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
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From the original article:
OK, I hate to burst your bubble, but everyone isn't a Christian, nor does everyone want to hear religious expressions at work. Whether your interviewer is an atheist or a Buddhist, coming to talk to him about a job is no time to be a witness for anyone but yourself. You're there to sell yourself, so keep the 'God bless you' and the 'Go with God', and the 'I'll pray for you' crap at home.
How come there were so many Christians replying to this article and it seemed they felt they were offended tremendously?
Are they more sensitive than buddhist, muslism, and other religion?
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Apologies - I couldn't see an appropriate emoticon for "tongue in cheek". I, too, don't think there was any malice at all. I should have written, "Joke flag is up!" after the initial sentence... Note to self: try harder next time around to ensure humour (correct spelling!) is distinguishable from that which is serious.
A comment on your later post: a seasoned Englishmen once noted to us young folk (30 years ago) that to spend your employer's time evangelising in the office amounts to theft! Sound words... I've tried to live by them since and would recommend reflection on this perspective. Lunch and after-hours are plenty good enough when we honour (more correct spelling, gasp!) our employer. BTW, this post was constructed off-the-clock
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- suddenly the abandoned and left-by-the-wayside "U" is making a comeback....I said this before and will again...maybe aluminum could be made to reclaim its "I"... ?!?!FallenAngel - you hit the nail on the head with that question - I had the exact same one in yesterday's post from the same thread - "I still do not understand why only the "Christians" are offended - shouldn't all religious people be ?!?!"
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
I should keep your gob shut next time Steve ... the response has started a bigger uproar than the original article!?
Anyway ... bring back the romans, that's what i say ... now there's a bunch of guys who REALLY knew what to do with Christians!?
I get my coat!?
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