July 22, 2008 at 3:16 pm
jpowers (7/22/2008)
Re: quote box --you see the buttons above the messages (Reply, Quote, etc.)? Select the Quote button above the message and it automatically quotes the message, leaving room for you to respond below. You can edit the quoted message to just get the section to which you are responding.
Ohhhhh....
I guess it helps when you take the time to look over the interface.
What do I do for a living?:blush:
thank you.
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
July 22, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Someguy (7/22/2008)
jpowers (7/22/2008)
Re: quote box --you see the buttons above the messages (Reply, Quote, etc.)? Select the Quote button above the message and it automatically quotes the message, leaving room for you to respond below. You can edit the quoted message to just get the section to which you are responding.
Ohhhhh....
I guess it helps when you take the time to look over the interface.
What do I do for a living?:blush:
thank you.
The Code markup codes are also pretty cool. I'd like to know how people do the scrolling boxes, though. :hehe:
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
July 22, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I would love some certifications. I have a Bachelor of Applied Science in Agriculture and moved into IT during my first job working for an agricultural services company. Currently my work isn't keen on paying for training and I don't have the time or money with a young child. I believe that certifications help you get a foot in the door at interview time after which your experience gets the chance to shine. In my current job I have had the time to play with/develop with MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQL Server 2000 & 2005, MS Access, PHP, Apache, IIS, ASP.NET, Java, Zope, HTML & Javascript, and Python. I have also spent a number of years as a consultant and have been told that I have good soft skills. With my current job I was lucky enough to have a friend already at the company who recommended me.
I must say though that an HR department can only work with the information it is given. If the hiring manager isn't specific on the type of candidate they are after, HR can only depend on the certifications as they don't have any technical knowledge to filter the candidates with. At my company the HR people work closely with the hiring manager so that people with the skills but perhaps not the certifications don't get overlooked. (I have just been investigating HR/applicant tracking software for my company. Can you tell? :D)
Cheers!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
July 22, 2008 at 7:31 pm
So I went back and re-read the eWeek article Steve linked to in his editorial. It's a very one-sided piece, don't you think? "Here's what CIO's measure their IT hires by."
How about this: "Here's what IT pros measure their CIO's and IT Managers by." I'd like to see a CIO that isn't the CFO's biatch. I'd like to see a CIO that can inspire all of IT. One that doesn't kill my enthusiasm with the layers of organizational crap. One that isn't playing golf with [insert 3-letter outsourcer here] to further his/her own career. I'd like to see an IT manager who understands and appreciates the "geeky me". One that isn't the pointy-haired boss asking me to track every 6 minutes of my working day (oh yes, it's happened). I'd like to see projects that are managed well. I want to work on systems that people will actually use. I could easily write my own 5-page web article on the topic.
I'm pretty happy where I work now, but I think we've all had that dreadful job where we hoped and prayed to be laid off. "Dear [major deity], please let this be the day I am retrenched for I hath not the will to hand in my resignation."
What I'm really trying to say is that it's a two-way street. CIO's and IT managers want stuff. But so do the little people. Maybe we should try to meet in the middle.
James Stover, McDBA
July 23, 2008 at 1:13 am
Certificate are easily earned but knowledge not. You have to work hard for knowledge not that hard for certificate. 🙂
July 23, 2008 at 6:08 am
Wayne West (7/22/2008)
The Code markup codes are also pretty cool. I'd like to know how people do the scrolling boxes, though. :hehe:
Those are done using the "code" IFCodes... when you're creating a reply or new thread, look at the IFCode Shortcuts to the left of the edit window.
--Jeff Moden
July 23, 2008 at 6:09 am
Anirban Paul (7/23/2008)
Certificate are easily earned but knowledge not. You have to work hard for knowledge not that hard for certificate. 🙂
That pretty much summarizes my feelings about certificates...
--Jeff Moden
July 23, 2008 at 8:25 am
James Stover (7/22/2008)
So I went back and re-read the eWeek article Steve linked to in his editorial. It's a very one-sided piece, don't you think? "Here's what CIO's measure their IT hires by."How about this: "Here's what IT pros measure their CIO's and IT Managers by." I'd like to see a CIO that isn't the CFO's biatch. I'd like to see a CIO that can inspire all of IT. One that doesn't kill my enthusiasm with the layers of organizational crap. One that isn't playing golf with [insert 3-letter outsourcer here] to further his/her own career. I'd like to see an IT manager who understands and appreciates the "geeky me". One that isn't the pointy-haired boss asking me to track every 6 minutes of my working day (oh yes, it's happened). I'd like to see projects that are managed well. I want to work on systems that people will actually use. I could easily write my own 5-page web article on the topic.
I'm pretty happy where I work now, but I think we've all had that dreadful job where we hoped and prayed to be laid off. "Dear [major deity], please let this be the day I am retrenched for I hath not the will to hand in my resignation."
What I'm really trying to say is that it's a two-way street. CIO's and IT managers want stuff. But so do the little people. Maybe we should try to meet in the middle.
Wow, I had a boss once who had us all carry little notebooks and stop every 15 mins and write what we did for the last 15 mins. THAT was a little crazy... in the end he got fired.
July 23, 2008 at 9:07 am
James Stover (7/22/2008)
... One that isn't the pointy-haired boss asking me to track every 6 minutes of my working day (oh yes, it's happened). ...
Yup, been there, done that. It was at an actuarial/pension plan company, and we charged back every 6 minute increment to clients when actuaries and plan administrators were working on client stuff. Most of my time sheet was an admin code that was only charged to the company, not to clients, as database development and running the billing system couldn't be charged against a client.
That was my first database development gig. dBase III+. 1985 I believe. And I had the fastest computer in the shop: a Genuine IBM PC-AT, complete with the self-destructing hard drive! Everyone else had to schlep along with XTs and APL.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
July 23, 2008 at 11:48 am
I've told someone in every interview in the last 9 or so years that I won't be micro-managed and I don't track time. If you need that, hire someone else.
If I've consulted, then I do pay attention, but I work in 30 minute increments, not anything less. I'll flex 5-10 minutes over if need be.
The worst was about 6 years ago, got hired and had been there over a year. All of a sudden we were asked to "forecast" what we'd be doing the next 4 weeks out every week. That way management could see if anyone wasn't 100% utilized.
Not sure anyone that survived layoffs was ever less than 100% utilized.
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July 23, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Steve - I have been very impressed with your writing and editorials, but after reading this from you, I almost fell out of my chair...
"There's never a guarantee that someone will perform at the level you hired them at..."
WOW - Did you really mean that??? I am no genius but I have always hired people who work out with VERY few exceptions. How?
I hate to give this away cause obviously its going to come as a shock, but I will teach the BEST way to ensure a new employee is going work out. Ready?
References and recommendations. Thats right, references and recommendations.
Hello??? CALL the person's last employer and even the one before that and get an assessment of their strengths, weaknesses and acheivements and I GUARANTEE you, you will weed out the people with lots of BS on their resumes, versus those with maybe "weak" resumes, but are in fact GREAT employees in the IT sector.
Time and time and time again I see this work. Certifications can be real baloney. Just as intelligence without common sense is like clapping with one hand. Degrees are nice of course, and experience is great, but in the end NOTHING beats talking to prior employers to get a real feel for what this person is really all about.
If you want good IT people, ignore the BS and go to the source. Dont just check references, interview them!!!
After all, if you were hiring say a plumber, what would be the BEST way to ensure he is the right one for your job...
A) Certifications from some Plumbers organization
B) Degrees from the University of Plumbing
C) A beautiful resume
D) Word of mouth from friends
Its D folks... Word of mouth trumps anything else!
July 23, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Never a guarantee, not never works out. 😉
I agree with you, but I've seen people give out references, including former bosses that were co-workers. If you call XYZ corp and ask for Bill Smith, supervisor for DBAs, how do you know Bill Smith is the supervisor? He could be your interviewee's best friend.
Also, you never know because someone could have a life changing experience. There are plenty of people that are great employees and then they get divorced, sick or something else and they don't perform. It happens all the time. Not necessarily everywhere, but it does happen.
I've had people I've hired that seemed marginal and out-performed expectations as well, even after checking references.
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July 23, 2008 at 2:07 pm
No, no...
First, get references from BOTH an HR person AND a former boss or supervisor. Never depend on one reference. Use HR to confirm resume information, and the boss/supervisor to "interview" for specifics.
Second, I always ask a 'dumb question' to weed out those who are faking a reference. Eg, "How did [name] do on that big NASA project?" - If I get an answer from the "boss" I know the person is lying because there was no NASA project.
Third, sure, people have divorces, deaths in the family, etc etc, but good interview questions can work through that: "Would you hire [name] again?", "Is [name] quick on his/her feet?", "What do I need to provide [name] to make him/her excel for my company?".
Think of it this way - what, other than direct contact and reviews are going to convince YOU of something? That is, do you go to various movies because Hollywood says they are "great" - Do you try new restaurants because a magazine tells you they have 4 stars from some unknown rating org? - Do you buy a certain car because you see something on TV that says 'best in class'?
I would guess "No" on all - and on all, word of mouth is what drives your own decision making whether you check with friends, co-workers, or whoever - but humans like confirmation from humans - that's just human nature, and the BEST way to hire ONE person, the right person ONCE!!!
(As opposed to these companies who cycle new hires in and out and in and out and in and out, and never figure out that the reason for it is that they depend on 'paper' - resumes, certificates, etc, without ever checking anything warm-blooded.)
I learned this back in the early 80's from a valued mentor and I have always used these techniques, and am happy to report it works to this day.
July 23, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Actually even checking with former real employers won't always work. I've worked for three companies in the US who have a policy of simply confirming that a person worked for them from beginning date to ending date. Nothing more. So many companies were getting sued by employees for giving bad references and by other companies for giving good references (when the person didn't work out) that many companies are acting to protect themselves by basically giving a "no comment" reply, whether the person was a star or a slug.
July 23, 2008 at 5:23 pm
jpowers (7/23/2008)
Actually even checking with former real employers won't always work. I've worked for three companies in the US who have a policy of simply confirming that a person worked for them from beginning date to ending date. Nothing more. So many companies were getting sued by employees for giving bad references and by other companies for giving good references (when the person didn't work out) that many companies are acting to protect themselves by basically giving a "no comment" reply, whether the person was a star or a slug.
This is my experience in Australia too. You can only get start and end dates to avoid any chance of litigation. You can only get more information from personal references which tend to be biased of course. It's a mine field!
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
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