December 4, 2009 at 11:43 am
Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)
I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.
I see where you are coming from, but remember he said study for the certifications. I found doing that (ignoring the existence of the cheat guides) gave my initial learning period a very useful structure and an end goal that kept me focused. Some people don't need that structure or goal, but for me it was helpful.
As for the certification itself, the existence of the cheat guides does diminish them, but when you are first transitioning they can be very helpful in getting interviews. I know when I was first changing career fields I was told openly by a couple of employers that the certification helped me get the interview, and I was told point blank by one person in a back and forth negotiations stage that he could raise his offer if I quickly finished the MCDBA.
---
Timothy A Wiseman
SQL Blog: http://timothyawiseman.wordpress.com/
December 4, 2009 at 11:43 am
Jeff Moden (12/4/2009)
RBarryYoung (12/4/2009)
Julien.Chappel (12/3/2009)
...I would not trust the SQL Server Compact addition to be administered...And frankly, this makes no sense at all, who said any thing about Compact Edition and what relevance does it have to this discussion?
I believe he meant that he wouldn't trust even the simplest form of SQL Server to someone who didn't learn the ropes correctly. I hope people understand that the steps in your article are the steps one should take to start learning "the ropes" correctly. 🙂
Ah yes, that makes more sense. And yes, I agree with you also.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 11:52 am
Dude76 (12/4/2009)
just study through them and learn the answers
well... i can't agree this one.
study through them, yes, learn throught them also, understanding, learning mechanisms is right.
Learning answers and become a parrot... what a disappointing speech.
Yikes! That's certainly not how I meant that line to be understood. Let's look at again in context:
Start to study for the certification exams. Not those "cheater" aids, they're worthless if you really want to learn the material. Instead get the Microsoft study guides, and the self-paced learning kits for the exams. Don't worry if you don't know any of the answers at first, just study through them and learn the answers.
The emphasis here is intended to be on "study" and "learning" as opposed to the reading and memorization common with the so called cheater-aids. And the questions and answers that I am alluding to are the homework-type problems and self-quizzes in the MS Self-Paced Training Kits, not the exam questions themselves.
Perhaps I should have phrased that "... and learn how to answer questions like this." If I get the chance I will try to make this clearer in the future.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Gamberoni (12/4/2009)
I'd have to agree with this too. I thought it spoiled what was actually not a bad and reasonably informative article. I think as well, if you're suggesting using the Microsoft study guides then you might put more details about them in the post - or at least a link to them?
Good point, here are two of them:
70-432 Self-Paced Training Kit
70-433 Self-Paced Training Kit
(be forewarned, these links do not seem to work for many non-MS browsers).
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:03 pm
jts_2003 (12/4/2009)
I've been struggling to learn the ropes as a DBA for nearly a year now and a simple quick intro like this would have been useful to me when I started.Of course you should also set qa.sqlservercentral.com as you home page! 😀
Thanks, John
Thanks John 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:08 pm
timothyawiseman (12/4/2009)
Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)
I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.I see where you are coming from, but remember he said study for the certifications. I found doing that (ignoring the existence of the cheat guides) gave my initial learning period a very useful structure and an end goal that kept me focused. Some people don't need that structure or goal, but for me it was helpful.
As for the certification itself, the existence of the cheat guides does diminish them, but when you are first transitioning they can be very helpful in getting interviews. I know when I was first changing career fields I was told openly by a couple of employers that the certification helped me get the interview, and I was told point blank by one person in a back and forth negotiations stage that he could raise his offer if I quickly finished the MCDBA.
All true, to a degree. Like I said, I'm probably just contrarian because I've had to interview, quite literally, hundreds of certified DBA's to try to find one that knows the difference between a block and a deadlock.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
December 4, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)
Great primer Barry. It covers the basics of what's needed very well. Since so many questions come through on the board around the concept of "How do I get started as a DBA" this is exactly what's needed.I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.
Thanks Grant. As for the Certifications, my company aggressively pursues certifications, but not for the Cert itself, but rather for its value as a training program. And yes, as I alluded, you can effectively "cheat" your way through the tests and get the Cert without really knowing what you are supposed to, but in my company's opinion (and mine) you're really just cheating yourself when you do this. The real value in the MS Certification program is that is serves as a guide for what you should know at that level, and that is how I intended it here.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Jerry Sommerville (12/4/2009)
Barry left out one suggestion I would make. try and find a mentor! If there are other DBA's in your company, go to one that you feel comfortable with and ask that person to be your mentor. You'd be shocked at how many people would say yes. Having a mentor can help alot when it comes to self study. As a life long student of all things IT, mentors in my career have been very encouraging and educational to me. Find one. If there is not one at your company, find on online.... Jerry
Great suggestion, Jerry. I did consider this but left it out primarily because so few new or aspiring DBAs have access to one. Willing or not, it's only the largest companies that are likely to have anyone *qualified* to be a DBA mentor.
As for online mentors, I think that real mentoring is a personal and face-to-face activity (at least in the beginning). And I think that sites like SQLServerCentral are better online options. Just my opinion of course... 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:24 pm
sibir1us (12/4/2009)
Jerry! Yes you are right! A good mentor is the best thing for a beginner DBA. I remember my first days starting with SQL Server: afternoon beer with a good friend who was showing me how to write sql queries... :w00t:
Agreed, they are a great thing if you can get one, but many cannot. In 35 years as a software developer, the only mentor I ever had was the man who taught me to program when I was twelve (my Uncle). But for instance I have never had one for SQL, Relation DBs or SQL Server.
So yes, they are great, but they are not necessary and I did not want to focus on something unnecessary that might be unavailable to most of those interested.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm
SuperDBA-207096 (12/4/2009)
Barry,Pretty good article - it could launch someone down the path of becoming a DBA. Lots more to becoming a DBA, but it's a start.
I like the idea of studying for the exams. I've taken alot of exams for M$ certs through the years and every time I've studied (mostly by using the products) I've learned stuff I didn't know about the products. Even with products I've used every day, by studying for the exam you may learn a facet that you weren't aware of in the product. Pretty good concept
Mark
Thanks, Mark That was exactly my intent!
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Jeff Moden (12/4/2009)
Grant Fritchey (12/4/2009)
Great primer Barry. It covers the basics of what's needed very well. Since so many questions come through on the board around the concept of "How do I get started as a DBA" this is exactly what's needed.I don't entirely agree with #4 though. Certification just doesn't seem to be worth much and when you factor in the cheat guides, it becomes worth less. I'd rather have seen Brad's book tossed in or something else along those lines. But then, I'm probably just being a bit of a contrarian.
Heh... I knew we were kindred spirits on such topics. But I can't take a thing away from those good folks that did it the right way and then followed up on their training with some good hands on time. There are two types of people who are certified... and during and interview, you can tell. Hat's off to all those that took the high road.
Don't get me wrong, guys, I am not exactly busting with Certs myself :-D. But I didn't feel that I could tell folks to "study and learn" without some kind of concrete program to follow and the MS Certification are a great self-study program.
Folks like us may be able to figure out what to study on our own, but DBAs just starting out need something more than "keep studying SQLServer on your own." 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Dave Schutz (12/4/2009)
Also don't forget about your local SQL Server User Group or PASS chapter.
Good point, Dave.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:35 pm
petertrast (12/4/2009)
Anyone who has earned a Microsoft certification knows that there are some questions on the test that have more to do with Microsoft "best practices" than actual field experience. I am not sure if this is what Barry was referring to when he said learn the answers for the certification but you DO need to learn the Microsoft opinion on some subjects to get those questions right on the test. This plan closely follows my own methodology that I have incorporated into my plan to become an "exceptional dba" (some of you get this) and as a (current) trainer, I find this to be a simple, concise plan that gives new SQL DBA's-in-the-making a good starting point.I suspect that some of the resistance to that particular comment has more to do with antipathy towards "boot camps" and paper certs (and rightly so). Unfortunately, I see corporate students every week, with an average of 10 years of experience (and more) with little or no certifications. The surprising thing is how many features of the product that they have been using for 2 or 3 years that they have never seen or considered using. Training and especially studying for certifications will expose these to even experienced DBA's and expand their ability to get the job done while increasing the likelihood of job retention in a tough market and provide opportunity for better compensation. The main trouble that I see with career DBA's is that they forget that training needs to happen throughout their career and that few of us, if any, truly "arrive". I have noticed that the most awesome DBA's I have met never stop educating and certifying and I follow those who are successful (I hope 🙂 )
Along with Barry's recommendations I would like to add another awesome read "How to become an Exceptional DBA" by Brad McGeHee (free download somewhere on this site I believe).
Happy querying!!!
Great stuff, Peter. I agree with everything you said (including the some Cert question are more about the "Microsoft mindset" than about actual facts).
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:40 pm
kpeters-1146392 (12/4/2009)
seriously these suggestions will not steer you wrong, but i would think there are more then 5 steps. after being a dba for 15 years on most of the major platforms i would suggest as a base that strong t-sql and architecture, like what is heap and leaf data would be needed. anyone can study for a cert and answer questions, but that doesn't mean you understood the question or the answer. we have all interviewed people that have 5 plus years as a dba but don't know the difference between a varchar and a char. either way though, it's not a bad place to start.
Yep, this is really intended as a guide to getting started. Once you are actually doing the job, it should start to become clear what things you need to continue learning about.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
December 4, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Alan Vogan (12/4/2009)
Wow! A lot of reaction to this article! Barry, I just want to say thank you for the 60 seconds. I'm looking at getting certified next year and I needed a starting point, which you've provided.
Thanks, Wayne! 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
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