November 10, 2011 at 12:02 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Watching the Watchers
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November 10, 2011 at 12:36 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Ckz_O6oE0&feature=player_embedded
That's the reality we live in right now, big brother, 1984, but with big companies and states.
I sure would like some strict restrictions.
November 10, 2011 at 6:39 am
To a large extent the genie is out of the bottle.
Rules are window dressing. Despite government rules, the mining will be done, i.e. the government's ever expanding warrantless wiretapping. Congress even took steps to retroactively protect the companies who had plainly broken the law in cooperation with the government.
Private companies are normally looking for marketing opportunities, annoying but less dangerous than government looking for 'patterns' suggesting bad behavior. Private companies send ads, government sends armed agents. And defending yourself, even against an ultimately false charge (lots of false positives in these fishing expeditions) is inredibly damaging to one's life and finances.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
November 10, 2011 at 7:16 am
People think about digital information differently than they do paper information. Thirty years ago, if a supermarket chain allowed a telemarketing company or government agency to troll through their cash register receipts or checks, it would have been an outrage. Cyber-bullying is bullying, installing a root kit or trojan horse on someone's PC is breaking and entering. The rules shouldn't change just because it's the intenet or the data is digital.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 10, 2011 at 7:42 am
Problem is in de-identifying the data. You don't have to have much info on someone in order to find them in any dataset. http://godplaysdice.blogspot.com/2009/12/uniquely-identifying-people-by-birth.html
Trying to make the data less specific than this often renders it useless for data mining, so it's a sticky wicket.
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November 10, 2011 at 7:44 am
Steve,
In your post you made reference to "my patterns" and other phrases that seem to indicate you own the data. That could not be further from the truth. In this country, it is not your social security number, it is not your credit card number, it is not your payment history, not your purchase history - that information legally is owned by the companies that use and store it.
This is bull excretement for sure, but it is the law.
What is very frustrating is the law says they cannot use your social security number, in fact at least three major laws prevent this, yet all kinds of companies require it from video rental companies to hospitals and insurance companies. Legally they cannot even ask for it, yet they require it in so many cases we have learned to just give it to them.
We live in a great country, there are lots of great people and even countries across the world - but the people who run our governments and corporations do NOT have our best interests in mind. It is all about power, and don't believe for a second that any meaningful reform is going to occur any time soon. It has to get worse before it will get better, if ever.
Dave
November 10, 2011 at 7:45 am
Well first off, the linked article was from 2007. The Congress and Administration have completely changed since then and not only has nothing been done, but we are losing privacy rights on a daily basis. The government recognizes no boundaries of what it can and cannot do, with each branch pointing at the other to work out the "constitution details". The government thinks it can mandate that you buy a product. They think they can look at your healthcare records. They think they can track your every movement by putting a gps tracking device on your vehicle without a warrant. All of it oversteps the boundaries of the Constitution. That's the design of Progressivism. By drips and drabs we allow our privacy rights to erode away. Are we at the tipping point yet?
November 10, 2011 at 8:05 am
I don't mind a business like Amazon keeping track of me and making recommendations to better server me. I don't want them to share my data with anyone and I don't want them buying outside information about me. It's creepy and absolutely intrusive.
It's the kind of thing that would make me stop using Amazon or any other business that researches me and learns more than I provide to them directly.
Anytime I am contacted by a business that clearly has purchased my personal information, I absolutely will never do business with them. I will not reward them for an activity that I find distasteful.
November 10, 2011 at 8:32 am
http://godplaysdice.blogspot.com/2009/12/uniquely-identifying-people-by-birth.html
..Now Netflix is starting a second contest, and rumor has it that the data will include the zip code, birthdate, and gender of each individual. According to this paper ... this is enough to uniquely identify 87% of the US population..
In this specific scenario, the data could contain [age_years] or [age_group] (18..21,22..28, etc.) rather than actual [birth_date], and it would provide just as much analytical value but with for less potential to identify someone. Also, zip codes with sparse population could be consolidated into larger zip codes.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 10, 2011 at 9:32 am
djackson 22568 (11/10/2011)
Steve,In your post you made reference to "my patterns" and other phrases that seem to indicate you own the data. That could not be further from the truth. In this country, it is not your social security number, it is not your credit card number, it is not your payment history, not your purchase history - that information legally is owned by the companies that use and store it.
This is bull excretement for sure, but it is the law.
What is very frustrating is the law says they cannot use your social security number, in fact at least three major laws prevent this, yet all kinds of companies require it from video rental companies to hospitals and insurance companies. Legally they cannot even ask for it, yet they require it in so many cases we have learned to just give it to them.
We live in a great country, there are lots of great people and even countries across the world - but the people who run our governments and corporations do NOT have our best interests in mind. It is all about power, and don't believe for a second that any meaningful reform is going to occur any time soon. It has to get worse before it will get better, if ever.
I think you're right here, but the law is murky. We have some control, though perhaps not ownership of the data, but not enough. I hope that we get some court education, intelligence, and ruling on this. Europe seems to have done a better job of giving some better control to people over the data companies store on them.
I think the opening sentence in the last para is dead on and it's a little sad that we don't at least have government doing what's best for citizens over corporations.
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November 10, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Future scenario:
You're sitting at home and police arrive at your door. A computer face matching program has matched "with a substantial degree of certainty" your facebook photos to a wanted criminal's photo.
It's only a matter of WHEN, not IF, this technology will be employed*. By comparison, some unwanted marketing blitz will seem like a trivial annoyance.
*It will be excused as 'using technology to fight crime'
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
November 10, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Several years ago, I was watching one of those shows on cable TV where they profile real crime cases. A dead body was discovered dumped off the side of the road in a remote area. Based on decomposition, the investigators determined the approximate time of death, which was something like several days or maybe weeks. On a hunch, the investigators contacted Map Quest (which was about the only online mapping website at the time) and requested records of IP addresses who had searched that general area within the timeframe of the murder. Sure enough, they found one match.
When they used that IP address to get the suspect's name and address from the internet service provider, the the guy actually turned out to be someone linked to the victim. The police showed up at his door with a warrant, seized his PC, and indeed found the incriminating URLs in his web browser history. The suspect confessed to the crime.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 14, 2011 at 9:04 am
Eric M Russell (11/10/2011)
Several years ago, I was watching one of those shows on cable TV where they profile real crime cases. A dead body was discovered dumped off the side of the road in a remote area. Based on decomposition, the investigators determined the approximate time of death, which was something like several days or maybe weeks. On a hunch, the investigators contacted Map Quest (which was about the only online mapping website at the time) and requested records of IP addresses who had searched that general area within the timeframe of the murder. Sure enough, they found one match.When they used that IP address to get the suspect's name and address from the internet service provider, the the guy actually turned out to be someone linked to the victim. The police showed up at his door with a warrant, seized his PC, and indeed found the incriminating URLs in his web browser history. The suspect confessed to the crime.
Wow. As long as they had a warrant for the IP records, this is a great way to use technology and investigate crimes.
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November 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/14/2011)
Eric M Russell (11/10/2011)
Several years ago, I was watching one of those shows on cable TV where they profile real crime cases. A dead body was discovered dumped off the side of the road in a remote area. Based on decomposition, the investigators determined the approximate time of death, which was something like several days or maybe weeks. On a hunch, the investigators contacted Map Quest (which was about the only online mapping website at the time) and requested records of IP addresses who had searched that general area within the timeframe of the murder. Sure enough, they found one match.When they used that IP address to get the suspect's name and address from the internet service provider, the the guy actually turned out to be someone linked to the victim. The police showed up at his door with a warrant, seized his PC, and indeed found the incriminating URLs in his web browser history. The suspect confessed to the crime.
Wow. As long as they had a warrant for the IP records, this is a great way to use technology and investigate crimes.
This happened about 10 years back. Today, I'm sure they've streamlined the process of getting access to IP addresses and customer account information, at least from the major websites. Thanks to smart devices with GPS, they can now actually place a suspect (or at least his phone) at the scene at a specific date/time rather than just show he was googling or mapping the general area. No doubt when there is a high profile murder or missung person case, the investigators know a lot more than what they let on at the beginning, probably collecting physical evidence to support the digital "blood trail".
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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