January 26, 2011 at 8:51 am
January 26, 2011 at 8:57 am
kenny-892481 (1/26/2011)
[p]So, Steve, if one of your employees receives a job offer that pays more than you're paying them, you'd prefer #8 from the list to which you linked than for them to come to you with that info? Why?[/p][p]You wrote "No one wants to be put in a corner ..." – you mean that you don't like evaluating whether you're underpaying one of your employees? It's revealing that you then wrote "... I would be likely to let you move on" – how magnanimous of you to 'let' your employee move on to a better-paying job![/p]
[p]Did you read the comments to that post to which you linked? Nearly every single one points out that employers often invite, let alone warrant or deserve, all of these behaviors by their own abuse of their employees.[/p]
I would agree that lots of companies don't take care of their employees. If you read what I write, I am more often in favor of better treatment of employees over employees doing a better job of relating to companies. However that's a piece for another day, and you have me some great ideas.
"Surprise I'm outta here" is a poor way to handle the situation. No matter what the situation is, you ought to work with your boss to transition.
Now if you come to me with 2 weeks notice and I'm completely surprised, I'm a crappy manager. I should know if someone is unhappy, and be talking to them to try and make things better. I've never had a problem with helping people move on to another job, and as a manager, I've written recommendations for people. I don't expect people to work for me forever, and if they don't like the work and environment, then I want to help them move on and get them to help me transition to a new person. That's part of being a decent manager.
Unfortunately we don't really train managers to do that.
In terms of they money. If you think you're being paid unfairly, come see me, or go see your boss. At least they'll know. If you come in and threaten, or push me to match someone else, that's a losing game. Either this company is cheap, in which case we'll do this again soon and you'll leave anyway, or you are a money grabber, looking for the highest salary, in which case someone will always pay more. You can go to your company and push once, if you're a good employee, and you have a good reason for me to match. Twice and you're looking for money, and we have to part ways because I can't win this battle and I'd rather cut it short now.
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January 26, 2011 at 9:00 am
#2."That's not in my job description."....I work for the government I don't think it's an option it's got to be said!
#4 Dave has been accepted as a jerk...we had to move on.
#8 I hated leaving my last position but I started looking and was amazed at how poorly we were being treated but the team was so amazing the company sucked. I pulled the "Company X has offered me $YYYY. Will you match it?" their response was wishy washy so I bounced and it created a domino affect and several others followed suit. So, I guess it just really depends on the situation, but in this case just because the boss didn't want to hear it was a problem that rooted with the boss and he paid a hefty price for it.
As for the editorial's "I'm not sure if ####### will help" this one absolutely sucks if that's all you get, but I was told a long time ago by Colonel...if you don't know say, say so, but make sure to follow it with, "but I'll find out".
Never leave people hanging. If you say, "I'll find out" do it don't just say it.
Things like "I'm not sure if #### will help","That additional ##### didn't help", and "It works on my machine" all suck if they're not followed by an alternative solution.
January 26, 2011 at 9:13 am
If someone comes to you and says they have a better offer from another company can you match it, they are basically saying "I would rather work for you, but have to pursue opportunity when it presents itself". Anyone who resents an employee that seeks his/her own best interests doesn't belong in management.
The three biggest mistakes in life...thinking that power = freedom, sex = love, and data = information.
January 26, 2011 at 9:20 am
"Surprise I'm outta here" is a poor way to handle the situation. No matter what the situation is, you ought to work with your boss to transition.
Not always, if my manager is constantly throwing me under the bus in front of other people, or stabbing me in the back every chance he/she gets, then the way I figure it he/she forfeits any kind of consideration on my behalf. At that point, I am not concerned about his/her convenience, I'm watching out for #1. These kinds of managers I don't leave as a reference anyway, because I know I'm not going to get a fair shake from them anyway. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 26, 2011 at 9:20 am
boulang (1/26/2011)
Anyone who resents an employee that seeks his/her own best interests doesn't belong in management.
Completely agree with that. See my post a few before this as to why I would let you go.
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January 26, 2011 at 9:23 am
boulang (1/26/2011)
If someone comes to you and says they have a better offer from another company can you match it, they are basically saying "I would rather work for you, but have to pursue opportunity when it presents itself". Anyone who resents an employee that seeks his/her own best interests doesn't belong in management.
I disagree, this amounts to an ultimatim. There is a way to approach it, and that way is not the way IMHO. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 26, 2011 at 9:25 am
tommyh (1/26/2011)
Lynn Pettis (1/25/2011)
The sad part about this, "It works on my machine", is that I have seen. I have also the where the code changes work perfectly in development and during UA, but fail miserably in production.I fail to see the problem with "It works on my machine". It could be an indication that the problem lies elsewhere outside your control and that maybe other ppl should look into the problem as well. Hell could be something as trivial as the antivirus program. From personal experiance Panda for instance doesnt work well with certain development tools in some cases (had to replace it with Avast).
/T
I agree that this is not necessarily a bad thing to say, unless that is the only thing you say. From my experience, most people react cooperatively if, after saying "It works on my machine," you say, "so let's find out the difference between my machine and your machine so we can get it to work on your machine."
- webrunner
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
January 26, 2011 at 9:28 am
'It worked on my machine' drives me nuts. Not because it isn't helpful in determining the problem, but because most developers who I have worked with use it as a way to assign blame to someone other than themselves. Usually it's been used as a not my problem type of answer. But usually the job of the developer isn't to get code working on his\her local environment, it's to produce something for others to use. Working with QA or end users to implement the code into production is just as important as writing the code. I have had things work just fine locally and then get to QA and completely bomb. Maybe I wasn't given the proper information on the environment the code would run on or maybe there was some bad reference. Instead of saying 'It worked on my machine' I would say something like, 'Lets take a look at the differenced between the two environments, I bet something is missing'. It conveys the same information, but without the it's not my fault attitude.
January 26, 2011 at 9:31 am
Assuming the employee seeking the raise is not full of bs about the other offer, would you prefer that they just give their two weeks notice and go or give you the opportunity to bid on their services? It's not an insult to management, it's just a fact of life that employees need to go where they're paid best. Now, if a company/manager has invested a lot of time or energy into an employee's professional development, or a huge project is about to fall through on account of the person leaving, it would be nice if the employee would give enough notice to make sure there was a suitable replacement. If it were me, I would even make myself available after I left for consulting purpose so as not to leave anyone in the lurch.
The three biggest mistakes in life...thinking that power = freedom, sex = love, and data = information.
January 26, 2011 at 9:37 am
boulang (1/26/2011)
Assuming the employee seeking the raise is not full of bs about the other offer
Well, there is the rub, it's been my experience in the past people have used this ploy to get out of cycle pay hikes, particularly when they find out what other co-workers are making. Disingenious ultimatims, like this are very common in this industry. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 26, 2011 at 9:37 am
boulang (1/26/2011)
It's not an insult to management, it's just a fact of life that employees need to go where they're paid best.
I disagree with this, and IMHO, this is why management also treats employees like crap. There is much, much more to life than money.
Employees want to be treated well and paid fairly.
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January 26, 2011 at 9:44 am
It's hard to stage a development or QA environment that mimics production. Often times an application or stored procedure may not work as expected only after reaching production because the record volume is not the same, missing reference data, permissions, firewall configuration, etc. Also, the execution plan for a stored procedure on production can be completely different due to patch level, statistics, parallelism on multiple processors, more or less available memory, etc. Going from "It works in QA but not in production" to having more info about what exactly the root problem is can take hours, days, or even weeks.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 26, 2011 at 9:45 am
Assuming all things are equal then, wouldn't you go where the money was best? Of course most people think their companies ofter their employees a better deal than others, but that's more narcissism than anything else.
And as far as loyalty goes-I think you've got it backwards. Companies have been dumping employees for money longer and more often than vice versa (i.e. outsourcing).
The three biggest mistakes in life...thinking that power = freedom, sex = love, and data = information.
January 26, 2011 at 9:59 am
If I've gone on interviews and been made an offer that I've decided to accept there is no reason to negotiate with my manager. For whatever reason I've decided to leave, that decision was made prior to interviewing. I'm not going to waste anyone's time, not my soon to be ex-employer, new company or my own. If there was an option to negotiate with my current employer, that has already happened.
I've always worked with current management and the new job's management to give as much notice as possible. I've also, on occasion, made myself available on my time after I've left to help with the transition.
I've seen fellow employees approach management with offers from other companies, hoping to get a bump in pay and that, IMHO, is unprofessional. You've wasted the potential employers time and resources ($$$) on an interview, background check, drug test, etc for a job you never intended on accepting.
Also, never back your current job's management in a corner. They can be dangerous when threatened. Such as ... "There's the door & best of luck in your future pursuits."
M
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