May 28, 2010 at 9:11 am
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:
Good for you. I hated supporting GP years ago, and we found numerous things that weren't correct. Notably I didn't want the CFO staff to have the sa password on a shared server. GP support was sure they needed sa on SQL 2000. Turned out it was only because they created logins in the GP app, but we could create them ahead of time and they'd "appear like magic" in GP according to the staff.
I don't think it's agile programming so much as it's management and sales yelling at programmers that aren't trained well enough. Obviously the developers knew what was wrong. Just didn't know how to fix it.
It's my mission, and with your help, we try to better educate developers. Heck, when you find that, write up an article on the fix, send it to me and then send the article to the company as well. Maybe they'll come here for more advice.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
May 28, 2010 at 9:37 am
CirquedeSQLeil (5/28/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/28/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (5/27/2010)
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:
Ha - sounds like a product that MS ships called CRM. I'm gonna write a blog about it someday.
I could probably share a CRM story.:-D
Seems to be sold to the business as 'it can do anything'.
I wonder if 3rd party vendor and consulatants can be interchanged?
First load of a little over 100k customers took 32 hours.
Almost would be interesting to look at - kind of like Jeff's discovery.
Greg E
The load is somewhat atrocious. We started with a contractor. The contractor delivered nothing but jr level code. To top it off, the code was crap. For one particular requirement they wrote RBAR inside of RBAR to perform the task. For 64000 rows, it took 8hrs to run. I rewrote it into a setbased method and it now takes less than 1 second to perform the entire batch. It was just really stupid stuff like that.
Kind of what I would expect to find if I went if there to look.
But I have enough work without looking for more.
But always makes for a good laugh when they send a note that it will be 'unavailable' starting on Friday as they are 'refreshing' the data.
Greg E
May 28, 2010 at 9:44 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/28/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (5/28/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/28/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (5/27/2010)
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:
Ha - sounds like a product that MS ships called CRM. I'm gonna write a blog about it someday.
I could probably share a CRM story.:-D
Seems to be sold to the business as 'it can do anything'.
I wonder if 3rd party vendor and consulatants can be interchanged?
First load of a little over 100k customers took 32 hours.
Almost would be interesting to look at - kind of like Jeff's discovery.
Greg E
The load is somewhat atrocious. We started with a contractor. The contractor delivered nothing but jr level code. To top it off, the code was crap. For one particular requirement they wrote RBAR inside of RBAR to perform the task. For 64000 rows, it took 8hrs to run. I rewrote it into a setbased method and it now takes less than 1 second to perform the entire batch. It was just really stupid stuff like that.
Kind of what I would expect to find if I went if there to look.
But I have enough work without looking for more.
But always makes for a good laugh when they send a note that it will be 'unavailable' starting on Friday as they are 'refreshing' the data.
Greg E
Yeah - nothing like losing a day of work for anybody using the product.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 28, 2010 at 9:52 am
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
GilaMonster (5/27/2010)
More free consulting? http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic928775-149-1.aspxAnyone keen and free?
I don't mind deadlock questions (though they're often a fair bit of work), but this looks like a general 'look at the trace and give general comments'
Analyze a 15MB trace file, for free? I don't think so, I have my own job to do once I finish lunch.
Apparently my going rate it too high. He did ask at least.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 28, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@Lynn - I was wondering how you were going to answer this one - you did a superb job!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 28, 2010 at 1:11 pm
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
GilaMonster (5/27/2010)
More free consulting? http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic928775-149-1.aspxAnyone keen and free?
I don't mind deadlock questions (though they're often a fair bit of work), but this looks like a general 'look at the trace and give general comments'
Analyze a 15MB trace file, for free? I don't think so, I have my own job to do once I finish lunch.
Apparently my going rate it too high. He did ask at least.
Seems extremely reasonable to me!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 28, 2010 at 1:27 pm
WayneS (5/28/2010)
@Lynn - I was wondering how you were going to answer this one - you did a superb job!
Thank you, now I just have to see if he follows through on the educational challenge (and that someone else doesn't come along and answer any way).
I was being honest on how I learn. It has been over 30 years since I was before a Below The Zone Board, and I still know when you don't wear your name tag on your uniform (Air Force); When it would be obviously inappropriate, such as a wedding reception.
I was asked that question at a BTZ, answered wrong, and was simply told nope. No explaination or anything. I had to research it myself.
May 28, 2010 at 2:16 pm
WayneS (5/28/2010)
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
Apparently my going rate it too high. He did ask at least.Seems extremely reasonable to me!
It was. I did the exchange rate calc in my head and messed it up. :blush: Fixed.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 28, 2010 at 3:00 pm
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
WayneS (5/28/2010)
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
Apparently my going rate it too high. He did ask at least.Seems extremely reasonable to me!
It was. I did the exchange rate calc in my head and messed it up. :blush: Fixed.
That's better! 😀
For those that didn't see it... she was offering her services for $125/150 per month!:w00t:
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 28, 2010 at 3:10 pm
WayneS (5/28/2010)
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
WayneS (5/28/2010)
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
Apparently my going rate it too high. He did ask at least.Seems extremely reasonable to me!
It was. I did the exchange rate calc in my head and messed it up. :blush: Fixed.
That's better! 😀
For those that didn't see it... she was offering her services for $125/150 per month!:w00t:
Didn't see it, but that is an offer I would have taken very quickly. 😎
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 28, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Lynn Pettis (5/28/2010)
WayneS (5/28/2010)
@Lynn - I was wondering how you were going to answer this one - you did a superb job!Thank you, now I just have to see if he follows through on the educational challenge (and that someone else doesn't come along and answer any way).
I was being honest on how I learn. It has been over 30 years since I was before a Below The Zone Board, and I still know when you don't wear your name tag on your uniform (Air Force); When it would be obviously inappropriate, such as a wedding reception.
I was asked that question at a BTZ, answered wrong, and was simply told nope. No explaination or anything. I had to research it myself.
Looks like the OP is taking the challenge. Let's wait and see what happens.
May 28, 2010 at 4:18 pm
WayneS (5/28/2010)
GilaMonster (5/28/2010)
It was. I did the exchange rate calc in my head and messed it up. :blush: Fixed.That's better! 😀
For those that didn't see it... she was offering her services for <far too little> per month!:w00t:
That's what I get for posting prior to first cup of coffee in the morning. I can normally convert R -> $ and back with reasonable accuracy and ease.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 29, 2010 at 8:08 am
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Please, anyone, if I am wrong here let me know.
I think you are probably correct, but:
The system has clients and a server, these may have functions other than those they do in conjunction with each-other, so it may be difficult to arrange simultaneous down'time for clients and servers. So maybe one part has to be upgraded before the other. While MS failure rate on providing backward compatibility is not zero on single SP updates, it is worse on 2 SP updates than on single SP updates. So there is potentially some mileage in avoiding doing a two-SP update if indeed the client and teh server can't be updated simultaneously. Of course my experience isn't with SSRS, which may have a perfect record of backward compatability everywhere, but in the absence of experience I would probably choose to play safe, as Gift advocates, unless someone who has actually done updates of multiple interacting computers at different times between the start and end versions in question told me that they had done it and there were no problems.
Tom
May 29, 2010 at 10:28 pm
I wonder what the interview process was and how full of hooie the resume was that allowed someone to have a job that required someone to do the following simple task and that person has no clue on how to do it.
http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic930028-392-1.aspx
--Jeff Moden
May 29, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Jeff Moden (5/29/2010)
I wonder what the interview process was and how full of hooie the resume was that allowed someone to have a job that required someone to do the following simple task and that person has no clue on how to do it.http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic930028-392-1.aspx
You know, it frightens me sometimes.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
Viewing 15 posts - 15,571 through 15,585 (of 66,000 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply