January 9, 2013 at 7:37 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
By the way, my brain isn't functioning, what does LTEHQ mean?
I was referring to this in my prior post:
long time, experienced and heavily qualified posters
I understand how you feel Lynn. I'm just thinking that perhaps extending an olive branch may be more effective than what's otherwise been tried before to change his behaviour.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
January 9, 2013 at 7:39 pm
dwain.c (1/9/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
By the way, my brain isn't functioning, what does LTEHQ mean?I was referring to this in my prior post:
long time, experienced and heavily qualified posters
I understand how you feel Lynn. I'm just thinking that perhaps extending an olive branch may be more effective than what's otherwise been tried before to change his behaviour.
He got offended by me when I apologozed for being unprofessional in a reply to me after I had been called on it by several other LTEHQ posters. I really don't think helping him solve a puzzle is going to do very much.
January 9, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
dwain.c (1/9/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
By the way, my brain isn't functioning, what does LTEHQ mean?I was referring to this in my prior post:
long time, experienced and heavily qualified posters
I understand how you feel Lynn. I'm just thinking that perhaps extending an olive branch may be more effective than what's otherwise been tried before to change his behaviour.
He got offended by me when I apologozed for being unprofessional in a reply to me after I had been called on it by several other LTEHQ posters. I really don't think helping him solve a puzzle is going to do very much.
Where I work (in Thailand) I've had to endure some truly offensive people. Joe's not even close. Consequently, I guess I've developed a pretty thick skin (and some skills in conflict resolution:-)). As I said, I understand why you might feel the way you do.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
January 9, 2013 at 7:47 pm
dwain.c (1/9/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
dwain.c (1/9/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/9/2013)
By the way, my brain isn't functioning, what does LTEHQ mean?I was referring to this in my prior post:
long time, experienced and heavily qualified posters
I understand how you feel Lynn. I'm just thinking that perhaps extending an olive branch may be more effective than what's otherwise been tried before to change his behaviour.
He got offended by me when I apologozed for being unprofessional in a reply to me after I had been called on it by several other LTEHQ posters. I really don't think helping him solve a puzzle is going to do very much.
Where I work (in Thailand) I've had to endure some truly offensive people. Joe's not even close. Consequently, I guess I've developed a pretty thick skin (and some skills in conflict resolution:-)). As I said, I understand why you might feel the way you do.
I have put that thread in my briefcase. Probably won't post to it, but will save it as a project to maybe look at when I have some time to think on it.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
January 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.
January 10, 2013 at 6:44 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.
Oh my! What did you say?
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
January 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm
Just got an email from a newbie here on the forums. He had his account deleted. He felt he was on the wrong forums thanks to Mr. Celko.
January 10, 2013 at 7:02 pm
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
January 10, 2013 at 7:13 pm
Intriguing, anyone have any ideas? I certainly don't.
January 10, 2013 at 7:23 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
January 10, 2013 at 7:58 pm
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
So why delete the post? I mean really, does the truth really hurt that much? Do people really think they have the right to not be offended by what someone else says?
At least I didn't come right out and say the article was garbage even though I wanted to say that.
January 10, 2013 at 8:17 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
So why delete the post? I mean really, does the truth really hurt that much? Do people really think they have the right to not be offended by what someone else says?
At least I didn't come right out and say the article was garbage even though I wanted to say that.
Here in Thailand and I believe also in much of Asia, they have this concept of "face." Losing face is a big deal to them. Not sure where the author is from but this could be at least part of the issue, because your rebuttle, while entirely accurate, still would represent a loss of face to him if this is a cultural sensitivity.
I am not saying I agree with it, nor do I fully understand why this is so important to them. Clearly I don't agree with them deleting your response.
Just saying.
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
Need to UNPIVOT? Why not CROSS APPLY VALUES instead?[/url]
Since random numbers are too important to be left to chance, let's generate some![/url]
Learn to understand recursive CTEs by example.[/url]
[url url=http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/St
January 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
So why delete the post? I mean really, does the truth really hurt that much? Do people really think they have the right to not be offended by what someone else says?
At least I didn't come right out and say the article was garbage even though I wanted to say that.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought that article was really, really bad!
Jason Wolfkill
January 10, 2013 at 8:30 pm
wolfkillj (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
So why delete the post? I mean really, does the truth really hurt that much? Do people really think they have the right to not be offended by what someone else says?
At least I didn't come right out and say the article was garbage even though I wanted to say that.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought that article was really, really bad!
Seems there is less of an edit process on that site. Not sure who runs that site tho.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
January 10, 2013 at 8:42 pm
SQLRNNR (1/10/2013)
wolfkillj (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
dwain.c (1/10/2013)
Lynn Pettis (1/10/2013)
I guess you aren't supposed to leave negative comments on articles like this one, http://www.sql-server-performance.com/2012/sql-tuning-tvf-scalar-functions/. I took a bit of an exception to the article and left what I thought was constructive criticism, but now my comment is gone.Oh my! What did you say?
I can't remember exactly what I said but it went sort of like this:
I take exception to much of your article. First I would rewrite the multi-statement TVF as an inline TVF instead. Multi-statement TVF can be a performance issue if used improperly, but they do have some uses. Also, I understand that your example is simplistic to show a point, but I would simply rewrite the your query as a single query (I then posted my code without using any TVF's or temporary tables).
I also commented that I would convert scalar UDFs to single row inline TVFs and use them with either CROSS APPLY or OUTER APPLY in the FROM clause of my queries.
Well, that is about the gist of what I posted.
I think I see the gist of the problem here.
What you said is quite true and unlikely to be successfully challenged.
Hence I conclude that Mr. Shehap El-Nagar is not nearly as thick-skinned as me. 😛
So why delete the post? I mean really, does the truth really hurt that much? Do people really think they have the right to not be offended by what someone else says?
At least I didn't come right out and say the article was garbage even though I wanted to say that.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought that article was really, really bad!
Seems there is less of an edit process on that site. Not sure who runs that site tho.
I had a coworker of mine read it. She was lost by some of it, but I took the opportunity to walk her through it and show her better ways to do things that contradicted much of what was written.
I guess this is how misinformation gets out there, especially when contrary info is posted and then deleted.
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