May 22, 2009 at 2:05 am
Gianluca Sartori (5/22/2009)
Honestly, I would find paragraphs 2 and 3 quite offending if they were directed at me.
I'm sorry, I don't know English well enough to understand if you are referring to my post or some other. Can you please be more explicit?
If I was offending, please tell me: how should I have behaved? Is the problem with diversion from the OP? Honestly I'm just trying to do my best, so if I did something wrong tell me and I'll stop.
Thank you very much
Gianluca, I was talking about the other one's reply to your post. I meant the one who calls himself the Guru, signs with MVP, but doesn't disclose his name, which I find a little bit odd.
And by the way, there's nothing wrong with your English.;-)
May 22, 2009 at 2:25 am
Gianluca Sartori (5/22/2009)
Hi everybody! I see that "The Thread" is now focusing on bad replies, so please let me know: was this http://qa.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost721477.aspx really a bad reply? Did I deserve the response I got? Should I stop posting? Should I learn English at last?
Response to 'his' post
1 You did help with PERFORMANCE
2 Definately condescending and no need for it 🙁
3 Well, his diatribe refutes that statement then :w00t:
4 I partially agree with the first statement that "finding the right balance between performance and maintainability is a MUST" is limiting. It is one of those it depends. Scalabilty is a strong factor too.
BTW we are all allowed to disagree with each other but flaming and derogatory remarks should never be tolerated.
5 Only useful bit of the post albeit with the caveat 'It Depends"
6 I have seen arrogance like this cause the problems not solve them.
If I was offending, please tell me: how should I have behaved?
No you were not offending in any way. Quite the opposite.
Is the problem with diversion from the OP?
Deviating from the OP is the norm for this forum. It is how the best ideas occur.
Honestly I'm just trying to do my best
Bravo and great kudos, keep it up
so if I did something wrong tell me and I'll stop.
Oh no Don't stop.
The THREAD needs feeding, it's hungry
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon.
May 22, 2009 at 2:57 am
RBarryYoung (5/21/2009)
Greg Edwards (5/21/2009)
Florian Reischl (5/21/2009)
I don't who's the target person (and I don't have to). Maybe a language problem? Sometimes words have different meanings in different languages.
Ill never forget Chevrolet took several years to figure out why the Nova didn't sell well in Brazil.
They finally realized Nova meant 'no go' to the locals. :w00t:
Myth. Never happened. Nova means "new" in Latin and sounds like the word for new in most Latin languages. More here: http://spanish.about.com/cs/culture/a/chevy_nova.htm
Here some real automotive marketing accidents
VW Jetta: In Italy very close to "ietta" what means "streak of bad luck"
Fiat Uno: In Finnish close to "Uuno" what means "fool"
Toyota MR2: "MR2" in French sounds like "merde" what I won't translate here...
Mitsubishi Pajero: In Spanish means "wimp" (and more...)
How to Post Data/Code to get the best Help How to Post Performance Problems
May 22, 2009 at 3:04 am
Lynn Pettis (5/21/2009)
Paul White (5/21/2009)
Would be fascinating to know who 'flamed' Gail. Personally I would love to take a look at the discussion that prompted it and take the opportunity to vent some of today's frustrations on the perpetrator. ICBMs with pork chop warheads ready...So would I. I'd like to see the thread this occurred on as well. Curious as to what caused the confrontation.
Not saying.
It's between him and me (and if necessary Steve). No need for anyone else to get involved and absolutely no need to 'flame' the perpetrator.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 22, 2009 at 3:07 am
Jan Van der Eecken (5/22/2009)
I meant the one who calls himself the Guru, signs with MVP, but doesn't disclose his name, which I find a little bit odd.
He is an MVP, I do know his real name and he does tend to be rather abrasive from time to time.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 22, 2009 at 3:44 am
GilaMonster (5/22/2009)
It's between him and me (and if necessary Steve). No need for anyone else to get involved and absolutely no need to 'flame' the perpetrator.
I'm sorry I posted here a link to my debate with that member, maybe it would have been a bit more "delicate" to pose my question without linking.
Gail, once again you deserve my respect, for being a great SQL expert and a nice and correct person.
Thank you all for your opinions.
-- Gianluca Sartori
May 22, 2009 at 4:20 am
Jan Van der Eecken (5/22/2009)
GilaMonster (5/21/2009)
Oh yay. 🙁Another email accusing me of personal attacks and damaging someone's public image by 'misleading' people about his statements.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother.....
You are not by any chance taking about this one and his subsequent response to GS?
No.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 22, 2009 at 5:54 am
No one is going to believe this, but a friend of mine & I were very minor characters in one of the Destroyer novels. We were introduced and killed within about three pages, but we were there.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
May 22, 2009 at 7:23 am
I was off yesterday... A national Holiday here and it took me quite some time to catch up with this thread.... 😀
Gail, You have corrected me couple of times when I give bad advice or not so correct advice... and I always learnt from that corrections you gave me.. The only thing that made me shake in the boots is imagining you banging your key board on the table and saying "When is that Mor** ever going to learn. Why cant he just shut up" 😀
-Roy
May 22, 2009 at 8:00 am
Grant Fritchey (5/22/2009)
No one is going to believe this, but a friend of mine & I were very minor characters in one of the Destroyer novels. We were introduced and killed within about three pages, but we were there.
You're right . . .:hehe:
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
May 22, 2009 at 8:55 am
GilaMonster (5/22/2009)
Lynn Pettis (5/21/2009)
Paul White (5/21/2009)
Would be fascinating to know who 'flamed' Gail. Personally I would love to take a look at the discussion that prompted it and take the opportunity to vent some of today's frustrations on the perpetrator. ICBMs with pork chop warheads ready...So would I. I'd like to see the thread this occurred on as well. Curious as to what caused the confrontation.
Not saying.
It's between him and me (and if necessary Steve). No need for anyone else to get involved and absolutely no need to 'flame' the perpetrator.
Wanting to know and having to know, two different things. Still would like to know what he that was unprofessional by you. I have never seen any of your posts hit that level. Blunt, to the point, yes; unprofessional, no. But sometimes that is what is needed to get the information across to some individuals.
May 22, 2009 at 9:50 am
Grant Fritchey (5/22/2009)
No one is going to believe this, but a friend of mine & I were very minor characters in one of the Destroyer novels. We were introduced and killed within about three pages, but we were there.
Which one? I read the first 30 or 40
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/way0utwest
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
My Blog: www.voiceofthedba.com
May 22, 2009 at 10:00 am
Years ago, I remember going to classes on "structured walkthoughs" in which we were taught to embrace "egoless" programming. Walkthroughs of designs or code were to be conducted by someone other than the creator, and all questions or comments were to be directed to the subject of the walkthrough, not the person who created it. That is, we were to avoid the use of the word "you". A comment that would only raise one's hackles ("why would you repeat this code?") could be neutalized by turning it around ("I don't understand the advantage of repeating this code....").
As any afficianado of baseball knows, even if a player or manager curses up a storm in arguing a call with an umpire, he'll be tolerated so long as he doesn't use the "Y" word. He can say "that was a [horrible] call", using whatever nasty adjective one can think of for "horrible", with little consequence. But as soon as he says "You blew that call", he's likely to be headed for the clubhouse.
In Gianluca's exchange with the "guru", it seemed to me that our MVP friend may have been set off by an innocent and not-at-all rude use of the second-person pronoun. His reply was indeed a bit abrasive and seemed out of line considering he'd joined a thread so late, and had posted just his one suggestion, while Gianluca had been participating in the ongoing discussion from the first page on. That post complained inappropriately that Gianluca had gone beyond the scope of the original question, and Christopher's response effectively answered that objection. We can only hope that MVPGuru understands and accepts that explanation.
My bottom line on this is that we should avoid making comments personal (call it an incomplete solution or a mistake, but don't say "you" made a mistake), and try not to let those who don't follow that guideline get under our skin.
May 22, 2009 at 10:10 am
john.arnott (5/22/2009)
As any afficianado of baseball knows, even if a player or manager curses up a storm in arguing a call with an umpire, he'll be tolerated so long as he doesn't use the "Y" word. He can say "that was a [horrible] call", using whatever nasty adjective one can think of for "horrible", with little consequence. But as soon as he says "You blew that call", he's likely to be headed for the clubhouse.
Which is why you won't see baseball players or managers playing or coaching soccer, they'd get warned (dissent by word or action) or sent off (foul and/or abusive language).
I like watching professional soccer. You rarely see the coaches getting angry on the touchline with the officials (not saying the don't).
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