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Are the posted questions getting worse?

  • July 3, 2009 at 9:01 am

    #1019791

    Lynn Pettis (7/3/2009)

    RBarryYoung (7/3/2009)

    Lynn Pettis (7/2/2009)

    RBarryYoung (7/2/2009)

    Lynn Pettis (6/30/2009)

    Bored here at work today. I have things to do, but just can't get motivated.

    Bored? Dude, you did like 400 over the past week!

    Just a little. But's that's okay, I'm sure you'll also catch back up with me the week of the 13th, as I'll be be doing the ref thing that week at the PPI being held at the Air Force Acedemy that week. It is a 7 day long Soccer Tournament for U11 through U18 teams.

    And, Oh yeah, I'll be on vacation all nest week, so there's very little chance that I'll catch you anytime soon, Lynne. 🙂

    Barry, one tiny thing please, drop the "e" on my name, it is Lynn. 😉

    Oops, my bad. Spelling's not my strong suit, in case you haven't noticed.

    [font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
    Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc.     [/font]    [font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]

  • July 3, 2009 at 9:10 am

    #1019796

    Don't worry. I've spelt Florian's name wrong in a published article and Grant's surname wrong in a post on the MVP newsgroups :blush:

    Gail Shaw
    Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
    SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

    We walk in the dark places no others will enter
    We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

  • July 3, 2009 at 9:30 am

    #1019802

    Lynn Pettis (7/3/2009)

    Maybe I am letting things get to me more right now, but in this case I really don't think so.

    It's just how Eswin changed things and tried to make it look like I hadn't met his requirements initially. Perhaps, instead of say "no my date data type is datetime" and had said, okay, but let's change the requirements a bit, now how would you do it. Then none of this would have occurred. And to start off the post with "are you pulling my leg"? Please, I really felt like he was trying to make me look like I wasn't working with him to help solve a problem.

    Ah, but you see you are missing a possibility here. It could be both. 🙂 I remember back in Q1 I had several weeks where I was really racking up the posts. But I eventually started to notice that it was having certain effects on me: like I was becoming really fed up that people never seemed to post the dang error message, or that it seemed like half of the posters could have answered their own question if they had just read the error message ("That's right, 'Permission Denied' means that you do not have permission.").

    And most of all, that people would say, or describe themselves as doing, something obnoxious or offensive and when they got called on it instead of admitting it and apologizing, they would start equivocating and claim that "that wasn't what I meant" when it was pretty darn clear that that was exactly what they meant. And then I would see red and start going off on them. What I was forgetting was that individual communication (and indeed all social discourse and arguably all progress towards modern civilization) relies on the practice of giving each other a little grace, including allowing other people to occasionally state that they didn't say or mean something that you're pretty sure that they did. (there's actually been scientific studies on this)

    Now when when I said above that "I eventually stated to notice...", what I really meant (:-)) was that Jeff Moden sent me a PM smacking me upside the head saying, "Barry, what are you doing? This isn't like you at all." That's when I took a step back and thought about it a little and realized that I was under too much stress and was pushing myself too hard, because these were all tell-tale signs of burnout, specifically what we used to call "newsgroup" burnout.

    So, from Jeff to me to you, Lynn: "[*smack!*] Dude! What are you doing? This isn't like you at all." 🙂

    [font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
    Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc.     [/font]    [font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]

  • July 3, 2009 at 9:49 am

    #1019812

    RBarryYoung (7/3/2009)

    ...

    And most of all, that people would say, or describe themselves as doing, something obnoxious or offensive and when they got called on it instead of admitting it and apologizing, they would start equivocating and claim that "that wasn't what I meant" when it was pretty darn clear that that was exactly what they meant...

    Hmm, I missed a golden opportunity to try and get one past Gus here because the correct word isn't "equivocation", but rather one of my favorite words, the almost extinct "amphibology" (or sometimes "amphiboly"). But since amphibology has almost disappeared from the language, people use "equivocation" instead.

    But if Gus (or anybody else), knew what amphibology meant before I explained it (above) or without having to look it up, I'll definitely be impressed. 😀

    [font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
    Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc.     [/font]    [font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]

  • July 3, 2009 at 9:57 am

    #1019814

    GilaMonster (7/3/2009)

    You laugh. I was speaking with someone recently and he said that he and his team do some SQL development, but nothing complex, no joins or anything.

    chuckle...

    Makes one wonder... So, what constitutes "complex" SQL?

    Edit: Yes, I want your individual opinion.

    Wayne
    Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
    Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

    If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!
    Links:
    For better assistance in answering your questions
    Performance Problems
    Common date/time routines
    Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

  • July 3, 2009 at 10:25 am

    #1019819

    RBarryYoung (7/3/2009)

    Lynn Pettis (7/3/2009)

    Maybe I am letting things get to me more right now, but in this case I really don't think so.

    It's just how Eswin changed things and tried to make it look like I hadn't met his requirements initially. Perhaps, instead of say "no my date data type is datetime" and had said, okay, but let's change the requirements a bit, now how would you do it. Then none of this would have occurred. And to start off the post with "are you pulling my leg"? Please, I really felt like he was trying to make me look like I wasn't working with him to help solve a problem.

    Ah, but you see you are missing a possibility here. It could be both. 🙂 I remember back in Q1 I had several weeks where I was really racking up the posts. But I eventually started to notice that it was having certain effects on me: like I was becoming really fed up that people never seemed to post the dang error message, or that it seemed like half of the posters could have answered their own question if they had just read the error message ("That's right, 'Permission Denied' means that you do not have permission.").

    And most of all, that people would say, or describe themselves as doing, something obnoxious or offensive and when they got called on it instead of admitting it and apologizing, they would start equivocating and claim that "that wasn't what I meant" when it was pretty darn clear that that was exactly what they meant. And then I would see red and start going off on them. What I was forgetting was that individual communication (and indeed all social discourse and arguably all progress towards modern civilization) relies on the practice of giving each other a little grace, including allowing other people to occasionally state that they didn't say or mean something that you're pretty sure that they did. (there's actually been scientific studies on this)

    Now when when I said above that "I eventually stated to notice...", what I really meant (:-)) was that Jeff Moden sent me a PM smacking me upside the head saying, "Barry, what are you doing? This isn't like you at all." That's when I took a step back and thought about it a little and realized that I was under too much stress and was pushing myself too hard, because these were all tell-tale signs of burnout, specifically what we used to call "newsgroup" burnout.

    So, from Jeff to me to you, Lynn: "[*smack!*] Dude! What are you doing? This isn't like you at all." 🙂

    Actually, you're a little slow there. Gail already smacked me but hers was a bit subtle and has taken me sleeping on last night to realize it fully. But this did help as well. Eswin did send me a PM apologizing as well. Still feel a bit angry, not sure how to respond so I won't yet.

    I do need to step back a bit, but I'm not going to let this stop me from trying to help others. I just have to get out my halo polish and clean it up. 😉

    Thanks guys and gals!

  • July 3, 2009 at 10:57 am

    #1019829

    Re: Lynn and Eswin...

    Ah, my goodness. I don't think I could have invented a more clear case for the importance of careful use of punctuation. There's a book that reached some level of popularity a couple of years ago called "Eats Shoots and Leaves". Its cover had drawings of pandas holding guns amidst a stand of bamboo plants, the point being that "Eats, shoots, and leaves" has a quite different meaning than "Eats shoots and leaves." Did the murderous animal have dinner, kill his companion, then escape? or did he simply consume parts of a bamboo stalk?

    Eswin's post would have been so much different and caused such an opposite reaction, I'm sure, had it included a comma or something else to separate the two clauses in that offending sentence. "Sorry Lynn had made a mistake............" could have been "Sorry Lynn, had made a mistake..........."

    I'm happy to see that Lynn has accepted what certainly appears to be a sincere apology for an honest error, and hope that Eswin has learned a valuable lesson about the value of the "Preview" button.

  • July 3, 2009 at 11:32 am

    #1019832

    WayneS (7/3/2009)

    Makes one wonder... So, what constitutes "complex" SQL?

    Replacing the * with column names?

    😀


    Alvin Ramard
    Memphis PASS Chapter[/url]

    All my SSC forum answers come with a money back guarantee. If you didn't like the answer then I'll gladly refund what you paid for it.

    For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]

  • July 3, 2009 at 11:38 am

    #1019835

    RBarryYoung (7/3/2009)

    Now when when I said above that "I eventually stated to notice...", what I really meant (:-)) was that Jeff Moden sent me a PM smacking me upside the head saying, "Barry, what are you doing? This isn't like you at all." That's when I took a step back and thought about it a little and realized that I was under too much stress and was pushing myself too hard, because these were all tell-tale signs of burnout, specifically what we used to call "newsgroup" burnout.

    So, from Jeff to me to you, Lynn: "[*smack!*] Dude! What are you doing? This isn't like you at all." 🙂

    Heh... "MIRV pork chops"... gotta love 'em. Thanks for passing them forward. 😛 Like Red-Green says, "We're all in this together and I'm pullin' for ya." 🙂

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • July 3, 2009 at 11:54 am

    #1019837

    Barry, You got smacked in the head with a pork chop?? :blink: Was it frozen or thawed??:hehe:

    -Roy

  • July 3, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    #1019839

    Roy Ernest (7/3/2009)

    Barry, You got smacked in the head with a pork chop?? :blink: Was it frozen or thawed??:hehe:

    My intent was, properly cooked and tasty.

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • July 3, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    #1019840

    Jeff Moden (7/3/2009)

    Roy Ernest (7/3/2009)

    Barry, You got smacked in the head with a pork chop?? :blink: Was it frozen or thawed??:hehe:

    My intent was, properly cooked and tasty.

    Just the way I like 'em. UUuummm poorrrrk choooopss ...

    [font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
    Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc.     [/font]    [font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]

  • July 3, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    #1019841

    Heh... ready Barry? Show 'em what you do with these... (remember? :-P)

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
    "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
    Intro to Tally Tables and Functions

  • July 3, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    #1019849

    john.arnott (7/3/2009)

    Re: Lynn and Eswin...

    Ah, my goodness. I don't think I could have invented a more clear case for the importance of careful use of punctuation. There's a book that reached some level of popularity a couple of years ago called "Eats Shoots and Leaves". Its cover had drawings of pandas holding guns amidst a stand of bamboo plants, the point being that "Eats, shoots, and leaves" has a quite different meaning than "Eats shoots and leaves." Did the murderous animal have dinner, kill his companion, then escape? or did he simply consume parts of a bamboo stalk?

    Eswin's post would have been so much different and caused such an opposite reaction, I'm sure, had it included a comma or something else to separate the two clauses in that offending sentence. "Sorry Lynn had made a mistake............" could have been "Sorry Lynn, had made a mistake..........."

    I'm happy to see that Lynn has accepted what certainly appears to be a sincere apology for an honest error, and hope that Eswin has learned a valuable lesson about the value of the "Preview" button.

    John, Well said. It is one of the reasons I try not to write important things in short, abbreviated forms (or Yoda speak) when I am trying to get important ideas and concepts across.

    Plus, when attempting humour, I usually only do that when I have developed some report with the individual. Jeff, Gail, Paul, Bob, Gus, Grant, Wayne, Alvin, Barry, and few others I can't think of of hand are in that group. I may throw in some humour with others, but I try to keep it simple and obvious. I that other thread, I may have pushed it a bit, and probably should have added a little. "Really? That's it?" could have been followed with "That is an easy problem to solve, how's this for a solution." Or something like that.

    Hindsight, 20/20. Still, I was not happy with the responses that followed, and things just escalated.

  • July 3, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    #1019852

    Jeff Moden (7/3/2009)

    Heh... ready Barry? Show 'em what you do with these... (remember? :-P)

    That looks thick and Juicy... 🙂

    -Roy

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