February 19, 2009 at 6:11 am
Grant Fritchey (2/19/2009)
It makes me wonder what people do all day at these jobs they've been slogging away at for years.
From prior experience working with people like that, as little as absolutely possible.
I worked with a couple like that at the bank. Absolutely no interest in knowing anything more than the bare minimum needed to do their job and get paid. Never looked at the book collection, never read blog posts sent to them, never attended presentations (one even said 'what a waste of time'), didn't want to go on courses, hated it when the boss make passing one cert exam a year a requirement for a good performance rating, yet felt that they were top-class employees and complained when they never got a good bonus.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 19, 2009 at 6:15 am
GilaMonster (2/19/2009)
Roy Ernest (2/19/2009)
My problem is the management says I am too tough when giving interviews.My former management used to tell me the same thing. So I expect that people know what they claim to know. Why's that tough?
I've recieved that complaint too and I just laugh and say "You should see the hard questions"
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
February 19, 2009 at 6:19 am
GilaMonster (2/19/2009)
Grant Fritchey (2/19/2009)
It makes me wonder what people do all day at these jobs they've been slogging away at for years.From prior experience working with people like that, as little as absolutely possible.
I worked with a couple like that at the bank. Absolutely no interest in knowing anything more than the bare minimum needed to do their job and get paid. Never looked at the book collection, never read blog posts sent to them, never attended presentations (one even said 'what a waste of time'), didn't want to go on courses, hated it when the boss make passing one cert exam a year a requirement for a good performance rating, yet felt that they were top-class employees and complained when they never got a good bonus.
And this is why, when the discussion about exposed salaries was going on and all the whining over what was "fair" was occuring, I just couldn't understand it. Those who do more should get more and that's all that's "fair."
I think I've worked with those guys. Actually, I think a couple of them work here. For example, our Oracle team is implementing "hot" backups for the first time this year. What are those you might ask. Those are backups done with the database still online & accessible to the end-user. They were amazed 7 1/2 years ago when I told them we would just back up the SQL Server databases in place without taking them offline. Most of our Oracle people were trained in 1995 or there abouts and they stopped learning at that point.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
February 19, 2009 at 6:23 am
Some people are just not interested in Gaining knowledge. IT is always going ahead fast and if you dont put an effort, you will be left far behind with no knowledge of the current technologies.
-Roy
February 19, 2009 at 6:34 am
I would like it if the Blogs & their comments were more tied into the forums. Keep the Blog posts and comments pages visibly the same, but make the comments actually a thread in the forums so the we can interact with them here as well. Also picking up our names and Avatars as well.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
February 19, 2009 at 7:02 am
I've been invited to attend interviews of candidates who list SQL skills on their resumes. I used to waste a lot of time doing this. My game plan now is to hand them a schema of a simple PERSON table, and ask them to go to the board and write a select statement to list alphabetically by last name everyone whose first name begins with an "A". Most of them can't do it. In the future, I will probably announce "I'm done here.", exit the meeting, and go back to work.
On the other hand, I've applauded an absolutely brilliant GUI developer who had the courage to look me in the eye and say SQL just wasn't his thing and he wasn't going to pretend he had any expertise. If something complicated needed to be done, he assumed he would look to me for a stored procedure. Turned out he was more knowledgeable than most in SQL too.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
February 19, 2009 at 7:23 am
Grant Fritchey (2/19/2009)
GilaMonster (2/19/2009)
Roy Ernest (2/19/2009)
My problem is the management says I am too tough when giving interviews.My former management used to tell me the same thing. So I expect that people know what they claim to know. Why's that tough?
I've recieved that complaint too and I just laugh and say "You should see the hard questions"
Oooohhhhh! I'd love to have the opportunity to hit some of these people with "the tough questions". Just for the fun of it.
Personally though, I would rather have a smart, motivated person with very little knowledge but the ability and eagerness to learn, than a moderately knowledgeable person with no willingness to learn.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 19, 2009 at 7:34 am
Personally though, I would rather have a smart, motivated person with very little knowledge but the ability and eagerness to learn, than a moderately knowledgeable person with no willingness to learn.
Amen.
Ignorance is merely the absence of knowledge on a particular subject.
Stupidity is an unwillingness to admit to ignorance and do something constructive about it.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
February 19, 2009 at 7:38 am
Talking about interviewing, I would love to be in the same place at the same time as Jeff, Gail, Grant, Gus, Matt, and Jack and have a mock interview with all of them, with me as the interviewee. I know I'd come up short, but would definitely learn something from the experience.
February 19, 2009 at 7:46 am
Lynn Pettis (2/19/2009)
Talking about interviewing, I would love to be in the same place at the same time as Jeff, Gail, Grant, Gus, Matt, and Jack and have a mock interview with all of them, with me as the interviewee. I know I'd come up short, but would definitely learn something from the experience.
Are you kidding? I'd be scared to ask questions in the same room as Gail & Jeff. I got beat badly enough at her presentation at PASS. 😛
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
February 19, 2009 at 7:50 am
Roy Ernest (2/19/2009)
Max, I barely give good suggestions:ermm:My knowledge is not soo high. But I try to learn from the mistakes I make when someone corrects me or give a better Suggestion.
Yesterday it happened. OP wanted to know if there was any way that she could Audit SP changes, So I gave her the DDL Trigger option. Yea, it works, but GSquared came with a better idea. use the Default Trace. So I learnt. So I am thankful and also embarrassed when I make stupid comments... 😛
On that particular point, keep in mind that the default trace will usually only have a couple of days data in it. If you want to keep a longer record than that, you either have to back up the trace files, or use DDL triggers.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 19, 2009 at 7:50 am
Reading all this posts I'm not sure that I've done a good thing.
I gave him a bunch of Q's with the answers,
I think he would learn more if he searched for the answers by himself 🙁
-------------------------------------------------------------
"It takes 15 minutes to learn the game and a lifetime to master"
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality."
February 19, 2009 at 7:51 am
Lynn Pettis (2/19/2009)
Talking about interviewing, I would love to be in the same place at the same time as Jeff, Gail, Grant, Gus, Matt, and Jack and have a mock interview with all of them, with me as the interviewee. I know I'd come up short, but would definitely learn something from the experience.
If you ever do that Lynn, Please record it and send me the link to listen and watch it...:P
-Roy
February 19, 2009 at 7:53 am
Doc (2/19/2009)
Reading all this posts I'm not sure that I've done a good thing.I gave him a bunch of Q's with the answers,
I think he would learn more if he searched for the answers by himself 🙁
ah, I wouldnt worry too much about it. If the interviewer has little knowledge, he/she will see right through him..:)
-Roy
February 19, 2009 at 7:57 am
Lynn Pettis (2/19/2009)
Talking about interviewing, I would love to be in the same place at the same time as Jeff, Gail, Grant, Gus, Matt, and Jack and have a mock interview with all of them, with me as the interviewee. I know I'd come up short, but would definitely learn something from the experience.
Actually, judging by posts on this site, I expect you would pass anything that had the purpose of being a hiring interview. The purpose of an interview is to test a few basics, and to get a feeling for whether a person would be okay for a set of duties and would mesh well with a team. So far as I can tell, you would do just fine.
Nobody knows everything about SQL. The key is to know what you know, be aware that there are things you don't know, don't try to fake it on either, and be able and willing to learn the things you need to as you need them. That's really all I'd be looking for in an interview. I'm firmly convinced that any reasonably bright person can learn to handle SQL, if they have the interest and the willingness, and the right guidance to get over the rough parts.
Have to admit to being flattered that you had me on your list.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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