March 19, 2010 at 7:57 am
Jeff Moden (3/19/2010)
One of the problems I've found that people face in getting some paid training is their own salary and position. Lots of salaried folks are underpaid especially if you consider how many hours they put in. The boss wants to keep these dedicated plow horses but may not be able to pay them more. Good training usually makes a person more valuable... especially to someone else who may offer a bit more pay and shorter hours.As explained to me by several managerial friends, paying for training can be a real "Catch 22" for a lot of managers and companies. Right or wrong, their thought is "Train your people and they'll ask for more money or go else where to get it" and that thought is frequently justified by the actions of the employee. I wonder how many employees would be willing to sign a contract saying that if they left the company for another job within a year or two, that they'd have to pay back the training expense?
In other words, if you want some company paid training, you have to show that it'll be worth it to the company that's paying for it and, one way or another, that's the bottom line... what does the company get out of it? Companies will jump through hoops if the answer is "verifiable dedication".
The company gets the ROI of an employee who gets more done quicker, or if not quicker, more effectively. If my boss is willing to pay for my training, even if I don't get the raise that I want, I personally would be less likely to leave because I'm getting a benefit from the training.
Conversely, even if they give me a bump in pay, but are totally unwilling to support my training, then I'm likely looking to go elsewhere. I want to be more valuable, not just more expensive.
I am as loyal as my contract demands, but I will only be dedicated when I see that you are as interested in my professional development as I am. (in other words, I'd sign that contract, and have before)
If you're attempting to manage by sitting on training costs to stifle your employees into staying put, well, you ain't worth much. (fyi, these are all general 'you', I know that Jeff is not saying he is doing this)
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 19, 2010 at 8:03 am
Andy:
Yeah. It'd be tough to get buy-in from someone who doesn't seem to care about you as a person. I'll give that some thought. I haven't encountered that situation.
Your situation is okay. You have the precedent in place. Lots of people don't even have that.
Protect the precedent. Put it out in the open that you support the need to make short-term adjustments due to budget pressures - but you want to make sure that over the long-term, the environment doesn't digress. Even in lean times, it's tough to argue that there isn't room in a budget for a book - in a medium-size company.
You've been served, though. You were told to exhaust the free training available - and really you need to do that before going back to ask for expenses, I'd say.
Bill Nicolich: www.SQLFave.com.
Daily tweet of what's new and interesting: AppendNow
March 19, 2010 at 8:12 am
Jeff Moden (3/19/2010)I wonder how many employees would be willing to sign a contract saying that if they left the company for another job within a year or two, that they'd have to pay back the training expense?
I've done this. This is a legitimate solution to the problem Jeff pointed out. An employee gets augmented by training and then that strengthens their bargaining position for salary and jobs elsewhere. That's just reality.
So, you require a financial commitment from the employee in the case that they leave. The employee incurs no cost as long as they stay. That's fair and it gets past the gridlock.
Bill Nicolich: www.SQLFave.com.
Daily tweet of what's new and interesting: AppendNow
March 19, 2010 at 8:12 am
jcrawf02 (3/19/2010)
(fyi, these are all general 'you', I know that Jeff is not saying he is doing this)
Heh... Correct... I should have mentioned that. I can just imagine the hate mail I might get if someone took what I said as a practice rather than an observation. 🙂
--Jeff Moden
March 19, 2010 at 8:34 am
I am also among the lucky folks who work for training friendly companies. I went through so many though that i actually looked for a training friendly company in my search and found them. My company sponsors user group meetings and sends its people to the best training there is and am going to PASS again for third year in a row sponsored by them. I have worked for those 'meanies' before, by that i mean those who won't spend even on books/magazines - some of them are worth arguing with, majority in my experience are simply aren't. Training comes from the employer's belief that his employes need to learn/grow/do a better job and lots of them out there just dont care enough, they are fine if you just do the bare minimum or you sweat it out somehow to find the solution. I feel really sorry for those who have to put up with that stuff, personally i just couldn't.
March 19, 2010 at 9:26 am
Henrico Bekker (3/18/2010)
When are you coming to South Africa to host a SQL Saturday? 😉
South Africa?!?!? Isn't that 3 light days of travel from CO? Can I send Gail in my place?
Don't say this too loud. My wife would love to come and probably drag me along if she hears about it.
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March 19, 2010 at 9:28 am
Grant Fritchey (3/19/2010)
I've also been lucky to work for a company that is pretty good about training (although that's changing a bit). But the one thing I do, any time I can, is point out exactly where I recieved a piece of information that helped the company. If I read a book that had information we needed, I point out that book. If a session I attended at PASS showed information that we used, I make sure everyone involved knows where that information came from. I can't tell you that works to ensure I keep receiving training, but it has to accumulate to show the use of training.
That's a great point, Grant. I need to remind people to do this at PASS, SQL Saturday, etc.
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March 19, 2010 at 9:29 am
GilaMonster (3/19/2010)
Henrico Bekker (3/18/2010)
I've been nagging Steve to visit for years. He's scared of the flight. 😀
She has, and I am a little scared of the flight. More annoyed at thinking of traveling that far. Already dreading a flight to London tomorrow.
Can I send Brad in my place?
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March 19, 2010 at 9:30 am
Jeff Moden (3/19/2010)
Right or wrong, their thought is "Train your people and they'll ask for more money or go else where to get it" and that thought is frequently justified by the actions of the employee. I wonder how many employees would be willing to sign a contract saying that if they left the company for another job within a year or two, that they'd have to pay back the training expense?
This has been standard with both training and certification with a few of the larger companies I've worked for. It's typically been a year past the training date.
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March 19, 2010 at 9:36 am
Andy,
Bill has a good response, as does Jack, but I'd also add in Grant's note. Use the free training, and then when you use it, make a point of documenting that. I'd say a blog is a great way to do this. It not only helps improve your brand and shows you are a motivated employee, but it also shows that you pay attention and use the resources you have.
I also would offer to split costs, or work on some other basis with your boss. Negotiate. If they can't train you this year, then argue for next year. I know lots of people that get a class/conference every other year or every third year. Work out a compromise.
Or look to move on. I wouldn't play that as a card, but I would note that training is an issue as you want to grow your career. As someone that has gotten bumps in salary, I'd agree with jcrawf02 in that you want to be more valuable, not more expensive. You can do both, but if you get a choice, go for value. As you age, as jobs dry up, value is more important than your last salary.
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March 19, 2010 at 9:49 am
You can do both, but if you get a choice, go for value. As you age, as jobs dry up, value is more important than your last salary.<<
Very well put Steve, thanks. Also in my experience it helps to research if the company you are going into is training friendly and do not hesitate to ask in final interview atleast if they are. Most people are ok with stating their stance, if there is a hesitant silence or 'yeah maybe if you can really use it', or 'we are a small shop, not sure about that' (not all small shops say that but some use it as an excuse) or in simple terms if the answer does not reflect optimism then probably it is not the right place for someone who places high value on training. Also in some cases it is possible to prove value as Grant mentioned in many cases it really isn't - you gain many things which are generic such as networking or theoritical concepts or it does not occur to you to dig into where you got that piece of knowledge instantly, in short this is a pretty tough road to justification although possible sometimes.
March 19, 2010 at 12:57 pm
I am also looking for finding online training.because i am so much busy in my office work i have not enough time to take training.I want to join any good online training program.Please tell me how i can join it.
March 19, 2010 at 1:05 pm
staffkits (3/19/2010)
I am also looking for finding online training.because i am so much busy in my office work i have not enough time to take training.I want to join any good online training program.Please tell me how i can join it.
You've found it, read the articles here, ask questions and answer questions on the forums (look the answers up first - great way to learn). Other forums exist, Microsoft forums, ask.sqlservercentral.com, SQLSaturday.org, BOL, blogs, etc. Also, don't forget about Twitter. #sqlhelp added to any tweet will get you a lot of attention in a short amount of time.
if you can't get to Twitter from work (like me now) try twapperkeeper.com to read the feed in an archive, and check out the 'free sql' keyword notebook that I set up, LOTS of free resources there, from webinars to training to videos to whatever else.
that should be enough to get you started :-P:-D
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 19, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (3/19/2010)
Henrico Bekker (3/18/2010)
When are you coming to South Africa to host a SQL Saturday? 😉South Africa?!?!? Isn't that 3 light days of travel from CO? Can I send Gail in my place?
Don't say this too loud. My wife would love to come and probably drag me along if she hears about it.
Can you invoke DBCC Timewarp through powershell via iPhone or something to make it smoother? (Gail, you'll have to try that for the Summit next time)
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 19, 2010 at 1:56 pm
SQL Saturday 33 was absolutely wonderful for those of us who don't have many training opportunities. I work for a government agency that has had no choice but to cut the training budget to the bone. My management paid my mileage to Charlotte and gave me a comp day, while I covered meals and hotel. It's a variation on splitting the costs.
Steve, let me add my thanks!
Beth Richards
Sybase, Oracle and MSSQL DBA
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