May 3, 2017 at 9:14 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item IoT Pros and Cons
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May 4, 2017 at 6:13 am
It seem more and more I m asking why we want to do many of the things we see being done with technology, and I have concluded that 'Because we can' is not a valid response.
Rick
One of the best days of my IT career was the day I told my boss if the problem was so simple he should go fix it himself.
May 4, 2017 at 6:34 am
IoT is certainly going to be interesting to watch. It's been coming for a while now and I do agree that the developers absolutely, positively, MUST bake in decent security from the outset. Not only that, they need to have a plan in place to be able to apply updates to devices when (not if) vulnerabilities arise. They also (much as they'd wish otherwise) need to think about how to handle it when their back-end service goes down / is inaccessible / the business folds.
As for the volume of data, on the business side, I would think keeping a sampling would work, with a set cut-off time period where they perhaps drop 1/2 the samples, or drop the samples entirely.
Using one of my IoT devices (a thermostat) to go over each of my points above, from the security standpoint, I don't know if it is vulnerable. I do know the vendor (Alphabet now) does provide updates to the device (there were some recent minor changes to the interface,) but are security issues addressed at the same time? As for if the web-back-end is unavailable for whatever reason, it still functions as regular thermostat and will continue to follow the last schedule that was set. Basically, the majority of the features will continue to work.
As for the volume of data, it would be interesting to see how much goes out to the internet. Does it only provide data when I or the wife open the app on our phones, or is it constantly sending information to the back-end? I believe the APIs for the device are available, so if I were suitably inclined I could likely capture the temp data, whether the heat / AC is running or not, etc, to perform my own data analysis on how efficient my house insulation, furnace, and AC units are.
I don't think anyone is going to be able to stop the IoT train, but we can hope (and try to influence) that the people developing these devices put some thought into more than "hey this is a neat idea, lets do it."
May 4, 2017 at 6:45 am
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 4, 2017 at 8:09 am
skeleton567 - Thursday, May 4, 2017 6:13 AMIt seem more and more I m asking why we want to do many of the things we see being done with technology, and I have concluded that 'Because we can' is not a valid response.
Never is outside of research. As a shareholder, I'd certainly like to see more than this.
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May 4, 2017 at 8:14 am
Eric M Russell - Thursday, May 4, 2017 6:45 AMOutside the realm Weather and Traffic, most applications of IoT device data havn't seemed all that interesting.
Health, gathering data for medical people that can review it later. A friend had a heart condition and a device to constantly monitor the heart across weeks to decide how to proceed. Lots of applications here.
Maintenance - Lots of airlines are doing this, but also other transport are starting to look for IoT sensors to decide when something might fail and perform preventative maintenance.
HVAC - Lots of applications here, especially in larger buildings to adjust
Farming/ranching - The classis MS item of trying to determine when to breed cows, but similar items for crops, taking samples of growth or health and then acting on the information.
There are tons of applications, anywhere that we use humans to check something, log it, and then maybe make an evaluation are places this works.
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May 4, 2017 at 8:52 am
Already have some "IoT" at the house in a limited way with a "smart" power meter and a security/safety system. Don't need my appliances to be hackable as well.
Theoretically, I could hook my ham radios and scanners up to the internet, but there isn't an immediate need right now. I'm working on some networked radios for various applications, but I don't regard it as an "IoT" topic since hams have been networking radios for decades. Don't need the O'Reilly(publisher) buzzwords to describe old technology...
Listen to another county:
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May 4, 2017 at 9:02 am
I can see the potential for IoT devices in nature conservation and border enforcement. For example, IoT devices placed in remote woodland areas can leverage sound recognition technology to detect the calls of certain endangered birds and transmit the time and frequency for researchers to keep tabs on population size and migration patterns. That certainly is more logistically and economically viable than conservationists having to make constant onsite visits. Also, a series of IoT devices enabled with motion sensors and image recognition technology strung along the US border could be used to build a virtual fence, which would probably be 100x cheaper than a physical barrier, while being just as effective, or even more so.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 5, 2017 at 3:41 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, May 4, 2017 8:14 AMEric M Russell - Thursday, May 4, 2017 6:45 AMOutside the realm Weather and Traffic, most applications of IoT device data havn't seemed all that interesting.Health, gathering data for medical people that can review it later. A friend had a heart condition and a device to constantly monitor the heart across weeks to decide how to proceed. Lots of applications here.
Maintenance - Lots of airlines are doing this, but also other transport are starting to look for IoT sensors to decide when something might fail and perform preventative maintenance.
HVAC - Lots of applications here, especially in larger buildings to adjust
Farming/ranching - The classis MS item of trying to determine when to breed cows, but similar items for crops, taking samples of growth or health and then acting on the information.
There are tons of applications, anywhere that we use humans to check something, log it, and then maybe make an evaluation are places this works.
Aircraft collect a huge amount of data. British operated aircraft have been collecting 50+ different outputs on a continuous basis for decades because auto take-off and landing was something at the forefront of the airline industries mind due to problems of a very crowded airspace.
This data is fed to the AAIB after each flight and has been used to prevent countless accidents.
America has much more space so their aircraft used to collect just 13 measurements.
I think as resource husbandry becomes ever more important IOT devices and applications are the mechanism that will enable the fine grained control necessary to allow that husbandry.
May 5, 2017 at 3:56 am
I think it shows the progress of this type of thing when my Open university course includes pieces about it. I think its going to become mainstream whether we like it or not especially for its surveillance capabilities. Imagine the view of governments when they realise they can track most of the populations movements through their IOT watch.
There has also been some interesting developments in security with the reviews of Blockchain and the like as a method for protecting these types of device.
May 5, 2017 at 6:39 am
I was reading some articles and viewing some YouTubes on "Killer Robots" that many militaries already have in place. It's making war quite "sanitary" instead of the dirty, ugly, and costly thing that it should be so people are less likely to declare war. One of the really frightening aspects is the autonomy some of these bots actually have (one 4 legged version can actually consume things to burn for power... supposedly, flesh included). And some forms are fairly irresistible. Several countries have developed long-lingering drone swarms where each drone not only carries quite the wallop but each drone can operate as a member of the swarm or individually.
Now, imagine someone breaking into our junk during a time of war. Visions of Adama and Battlestar Galactica dance in my head at the thought.
As for IoT, collection of data, such as the heart monitoring thing and aircraft operations, is a great idea. Always has been and always will be. I'm just not sure that it needs to be done by Internet, where the data and underlying systems can't actually be protected very well.
--Jeff Moden
May 5, 2017 at 9:10 am
Echoing what I have advocated for years now is that we need to design our networks so that there is a clear demarcation, and physical/electronic isolation between internal and external systems, with probably a single point of separation at which point data is analyzed and scrubbed going BOTH WAYS. Russians hacking election data and interfering? Shouldn't have had that data on systems exposed to the public networks. It is just plain dumb. Hillary getting emails on a home server? Very stupid to allow her the connectivity possibility.
No personal devices inside government facilities, no way. no how, PERIOD. Next thing we're going to hear is that North Korea hacked the nuke codes and is blackmailing us, or worse. Back to hard-wired networks with no wifi for sensitive data.
Remember the days when information was carried in brief cases that were search going in and out? It worked.
This is exactly what I mean by asking 'Do we really need to do this sh!t.' We can spend our time wringing our hands over security, and spend billions trying to outsmart the hackers, when the solution is so very simple, and largely free. Only subsets of data should be made public.
Sure, I might want tech to control my thermostat, but I don't need to obsessively check it while I'm out to dinner. My wife likes to use Google to set a timer for her cooking, but why can't we use the little old mechanical timer that has worked for decades, requires no power, and doesn't expose us to eaves-dropping electronics? I obsessively collect and analyze personal financial information on my laptop, but it doesn't always have to be connected online to do that. It should be on a completely isolated off-internet system. Duh.
Jeff, you mention a very good example. Technology for heart monitoring and other health monitoring situations are wonderful, and has literally pulled my wife back from death on two occasions. But this data doesn't need to contain identifiable information that would mean anything until it reaches the system her doctors use to evaluate it. If I want alerts when my bank account reaches a certain level, the notice doesn't need to contain the name, routing number, and account number of my account. Just tell me it reached a level, not what the level is. If I want alerts when my debit card is used, just tell me it is used and where. I don't need the account number and amount exposed to the airwaves.
I spent my whole working career in IT pursuits, and have seen lots of systems, going back to the days when data didn't get any further from our systems than printed reports on desks that were locked inside offices overnight. Somehow we got by and didn't have nearly the security exposure of today.
I can work on my non-internet-connected machines using detachable drives for my personal and financial data, and then simply unplug the drives - of course after backing them up to a second one, and greatly reduce the risk of anyone getting into my data. I know the reaction to these comments will be that this is ridiculous, but to this point I've never had, nor been responsible for a data breach of any kind.
Rick
One of the best days of my IT career was the day I told my boss if the problem was so simple he should go fix it himself.
May 5, 2017 at 10:40 am
Jeff Moden - Friday, May 5, 2017 6:39 AMI was reading some articles and viewing some YouTubes on "Killer Robots" that many militaries already have in place. It's making war quite "sanitary" instead of the dirty, ugly, and costly thing that it should be so people are less likely to declare war. One of the really frightening aspects is the autonomy some of these bots actually have (one 4 legged version can actually consume things to burn for power... supposedly, flesh included). And some forms are fairly irresistible. Several countries have developed long-lingering drone swarms where each drone not only carries quite the wallop but each drone can operate as a member of the swarm or individually.Now, imagine someone breaking into our junk during a time of war. Visions of Adama and Battlestar Galactica dance in my head at the thought.
As for IoT, collection of data, such as the heart monitoring thing and aircraft operations, is a great idea. Always has been and always will be. I'm just not sure that it needs to be done by Internet, where the data and underlying systems can't actually be protected very well.
There actually was a report in the news lately concerning heart monitors or pacemakers.
FDA confirms that St. Jude's cardiac devices can be hacked
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/09/technology/fda-st-jude-cardiac-hack/
Also, your concerns about swarms of militarized flesh eating robots are well founded; and for decades both film directors and schizophrenic ward patients have been raising alarms about the obvious potential danger this could pose to the public.
https://youtu.be/4DQsG3TKQ0I
https://youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
May 5, 2017 at 11:30 pm
Eric M Russell - Friday, May 5, 2017 10:40 AMAlso, your concerns about swarms of militarized flesh eating robots are well founded; and for decades both film directors and schizophrenic ward patients have been raising alarms about the obvious potential danger this could pose to the public.
https://youtu.be/4DQsG3TKQ0I
https://youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU
Yep... pure science fiction... but not any more.
Read the "Mission Roles" on the following link and then realize that it autonomously picks it's target and is a self directing 50Lb kamikaze bomb.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/haroploiteringmuniti/
Then, there's "Harpy" and that bad boy carries 70Lbs of HE.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4760/meet-israels-suicide-squad-of-self-sacrificing-drones
India, Germany, and a couple of countries have purchases or created the same or similar technologies.
The U.S. hasn't put any bombs on them yet but their "Gremlin" drones have a range of 300-500 nautical miles (6000.2 feet per NM) and could carry something quite large.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/darpa-selects-industry-teams-for-gremlins-uav-proj-423819/
Put a long needle or single shot weapon on these and you might not need an infantry.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-autonomous-drones-set-to-revolutionize-military-technology/
Then, there's these bad boys coming up...
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-07/hungry-hungry-robot-not-man-eater-company-says
The claim is that "EATR, handily equipped with a gripper-and-chainsaw arm up front for capturing and dismantling its food, currently targets only twigs, grass clippings, and wood chips." (emphasis is mine).
Then, there's this wonderful development...
https://phys.org/news/2010-07-self-sustaining-robot-artificial-gut-video.html
And, speaking of Hollywood movies, surprise!
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/pentagon-artificial-intelligence-terminator.html?_r=0
Heh... and then there's these damned things. Give these some of those gripper/chainsaw arms along with autonomous weaponry and some hacked programming that violates "current" sensibilities over the IoT.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/military-robots/army-considers-replacing-thousands-of-soldiers-with-robots
The sci-fi movies of the past are becoming real-fi real fast.
--Jeff Moden
May 6, 2017 at 6:47 am
As others have noted in previous comments, there are positives and negatives to all of this. My personal view is that the IoT is coming whether we like it or not and it will be our own responsibility, as individuals, to decide what technologies we allow into our homes and, by extension, decide what private information we're willing to share with the outside world.
Speaking of private information... Sex Toy Maker Pays $3.75 Million to Settle ‘Smart’ Vibrator Lawsuit
Just yesterday I was reading an article about John Mcafee's upcoming Privacy Phone: Sovereignty Through Certainty: The Gamechanging Privacy Phone by John McAfee. It highlights, what I consider to be, an important feature... The ability to turn things off. Not a "soft off", where the software leads users to to believe that a certain feature has been disabled... but actually off. Turned off with a physical switch that physically breaks an electrical circuit. A simple and effective solution that I hope manufactures start incorporating into their IoT devises. I can't speak for anyone else, but none of these IoT devises will be entering my home without a physical off switch...
As to biomass eating robots... In combination with real AI... Hopefully I'll be dead before this comes fruition. I'd rather not be around when when robots, who are stronger than us, faster than us, tougher than us and smarter than us, start looking at us as little more than competition for their own food supply.
Just my 2 cents on the topic... 🙂
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