April 6, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Thanks to you all for the feedback. Plainly the vast majority perceive this as blacklisting. So, out of immense respect for you all, I will not push it further. Sometimes the lawyer in me resurfaces and I just have to argue a case.
Ramesh, thank you for your lone vote of support. I'm glad that you at least were spared the frustration, but your thanks are more appropriately directed to Gail instead of me.
-Bob
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
April 6, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Bob,
Thanks for the kind words.
I'll think about the rest. I hear what you're saying, not sure how to implement it. Or what would make sense.
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April 6, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Steve, I was the one thanking you 😉 and certainly almost everyone feels the same way.
From the responses, I think it's safe to say that your top people would not support anything beyond moving the link for "threads participated in" up from the user profile to the dropdown list associated with someone's name. No notification of any sort need be added beyond that.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
April 7, 2009 at 1:01 am
I don't believe an "official" blacklist is ever necessary. It doesn't take long to figure out whether or not someone is going to launch on you. You can usually tell right after the post where someone asks them for more information.
--Jeff Moden
April 7, 2009 at 1:25 am
I've seen lots and lots of folks agreeing that some of the greatest abusers on this forum are merely understood or just having a frustrating moment, etc, etc. But then I saw it happen today. One of us made just the smallest snyde remark about helping someone on what was obviously a laundry list of interview or test questions, and he got lambasted for it by yet another newbie. Heh... that's fair, right? :sick:
--Jeff Moden
April 7, 2009 at 6:53 am
Jeff Moden (4/7/2009)
I don't believe an "official" blacklist is ever necessary. It doesn't take long to figure out whether or not someone is going to launch on you. You can usually tell right after the post where someone asks them for more information.
Amen. There are certain posters who I'll either totally ignore or read the post just for grins, but that's based on past experiences. To specifically "list" someone could potentially stop a person, who may be lacking skills but truly is capable, from posting for fear of ridicule. I was a "green bean" once (kind of still am) and if I cannot ask a question on a help site because I may be listed, how do I enhance my skillset?
-- You can't be late until you show up.
April 7, 2009 at 7:05 am
Thanks, Jeff:
The thing I find really odd about all this is that I don't think there should be an official blacklist either. If I felt that way, then I would go all out and argue for banning people or compiling a Wall of Shame. But we all want to help people, even the frustrating ones, or we wouldn't hang around here. I think I put in enough time on the Rant, and with my good friend jt, to establish that my heart is in the right place too.
I did think that what Gail did for Ramesh in the Thread was the best idea I've seen so far. Just point people to the OPs prior history and let them decide for themselves. I understand that her motivation was to show Ramesh that the rest of us had already tried for some time with the OP in question, but the practical effect was to let him judge the OP for himself. Ramesh was grateful for the information, and others would be too. That's the only reason I brought this topic up.
I can see how this could be abused, and I've already conceded. As far as I am concerned it's a dead issue.
But could someone please point me to the language where I suggested that there should be an official blacklist?
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
April 7, 2009 at 7:16 am
Jeff Moden (4/7/2009)
But then I saw it happen today. One of us made just the smallest snyde remark about helping someone on what was obviously a laundry list of interview or test questions, and he got lambasted for it by yet another newbie. Heh... that's fair, right? :sick:
If I'm thinking about the same issue as you, the person in question has (as far as I've seen) posted very little of any use so far. Some posts picking holes in other people's solutions, some arguing semantics, some confusing the issue.
Maybe I've missed some, will check history later. Hopefully that will change in the future.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 7, 2009 at 7:25 am
Gail and Jeff,
That's a shame, but it's a function of this environment. Anyone can say anything they want as long as they don't get profane. With over a million SSC members there will always be some friction. But rest assured that regular visitors will quickly sort out who is worth listening to and who isn't.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
April 7, 2009 at 8:39 am
There is frustration at times, and rudeness as well (possibly together). It's part of the package when teaching.
I've been thinking about this a bit. I think that those that want to help and post should reserve their own judgment. They should have the chance to try and convert people, or ignore them. Learn to deal with the problem posters.
I have a little feeling that this is a trial by fire, and I'm not sure that I want to unnecessarily prejudice those that look to provide answers.
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April 7, 2009 at 9:06 am
I've been thinking about this a bit. I think that those that want to help and post should reserve their own judgment. They should have the chance to try and convert people, or ignore them. Learn to deal with the problem posters.
I was once on such a list in a Microsoft forum Gift Peddie is confused or causing confusion. There was a meeting thread created in the moderators forum about my lack of skills one day I was heckled and banned. My sin a black woman who raw object model and do Relational Algebra that will not use Access database.
When I took exam 70-547 for VS2005 Web MCPD last year I almost cried everything in that exam is what I do for Microsoft customers online and people decided to convince me and users I was the unskilled in that place because of who I am.
I think my picture in the avatar that showed I was not only a woman but black caused it I have not provided my picture for anything Microsoft is doing because I will stop doing software when I find ten percent better brains I have not seen that.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
April 7, 2009 at 9:59 am
Gift Peddie (4/7/2009)
I've been thinking about this a bit. I think that those that want to help and post should reserve their own judgment. They should have the chance to try and convert people, or ignore them. Learn to deal with the problem posters.
I was once on such a list in a Microsoft forum Gift Peddie is confused or causing confusion. There was a meeting thread created in the moderators forum about my lack of skills one day I was heckled and banned. My sin a black woman who raw object model and do Relational Algebra that will not use Access database.
When I took exam 70-547 for VS2005 Web MCPD last year I almost cried everything in that exam is what I do for Microsoft customers online and people decided to convince me and users I was the unskilled in that place because of who I am.
I think my picture in the avatar that showed I was not only a woman but black caused it I have not provided my picture for anything Microsoft is doing because I will stop doing software when I find ten percent better brains I have not seen that.
I sometimes have a similar problem with age... most young folks look at my white beard and chuckle about what Santa Clause might know about databases. Heh... of course, they soon find out.
Personally, I don't care if you're black, white, yellow, red, brown, purple, male, female, something in between, have 3 eyes, or glow in the dark... if you can demonstrate some decent logical thinking, have a passion for your work, and a decent personality, then you're aces in my book.
--Jeff Moden
April 7, 2009 at 10:01 am
GilaMonster (4/7/2009)
Jeff Moden (4/7/2009)
But then I saw it happen today. One of us made just the smallest snyde remark about helping someone on what was obviously a laundry list of interview or test questions, and he got lambasted for it by yet another newbie. Heh... that's fair, right? :sick:If I'm thinking about the same issue as you, the person in question has (as far as I've seen) posted very little of any use so far. Some posts picking holes in other people's solutions, some arguing semantics, some confusing the issue.
Maybe I've missed some, will check history later. Hopefully that will change in the future.
It was the one that had 3 questions "for a friend" and one of them was about determining the number of lines in a file. I believe you were "there" and responded in a similar fashion as I did. You know, the one about "unwritten rules"? That one...
--Jeff Moden
April 7, 2009 at 10:24 am
Bob Hovious (4/7/2009)
But could someone please point me to the language where I suggested that there should be an official blacklist?
Specifically, you didn't. Grant mentioned it first and I carried it on because I'd like to make absolutely sure that such a list was never created and, heh.... for the very same reasons... not only do I think it's wrong, but I know that I'd end up on it because some folks get ticked even if you butter their bread for them.
--Jeff Moden
April 7, 2009 at 10:35 am
Thanks, Jeff. I was feeling the same frustration I used to feel in arguments with my first wife when she would tell me what my opinion was and then be mad at me for having that opinion. 😛
Gail at least read what I was in favor of and went at it head on, for which courtesy I am grateful.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
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