January 9, 2012 at 11:36 am
I agree with several posters. I like to say, "Once I pick up the stick, I can't put it down until I've figure it out."
That said, these challenges do fall into different categories. The ones I really enjoy are the ones where I am learning new techniques, etc. (and are easier to set aside to work on during my own time). The ones that drive me crazy are the ones where some strange error has occurred, and we work around it (so I need to just put it down), but I'd still like to know WHY.
This looks like it would be a good question to pose to an interviewee. (i'll have to keep that in mind.)
January 9, 2012 at 2:04 pm
because we not only like challenges, we don't like to be proven that we can't do something, even to ourselves
January 9, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Hmm... it's a double-edged sword sometimes, too... Just ask our (ex-)spouses...
January 9, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Let's face it, most jobs don't allow us the luxury to be our creative best. So solving the occasional challenge offers a nice break from the monotonous drudgery of a typical day's work.
James Stover, McDBA
January 10, 2012 at 4:41 am
hoekma (1/9/2012)
Ok, I have to be the first one to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation. For full disclosure, I'm not a fulltime DBA. I work in TSQL quite a bit, but also do a lot of work in other application tiers (business logic, ui).Don't you think sometimes when getting into one of these situations it's time to step back and decide whether you are using a the wrong tool? (like a hammer when you need a screwdriver). Sometimes when things are this hard it is an indication that maybe the task should be moved to a different application tier. Solving the problem in the wrong place (not saying that's always the case or necessarily the programming case that started this discuss) just for the sake of not letting the computer win may just make the app harder to maintain over time.
Hey, monkey wrench one, that's all part of solving the problem - working out the optimal refactoring, even if you do not actually implement it there and then. If it's feasible you can so do at the time, otherwise you make a mental note and say 'Should we need to work on this, or if we need to do X or Y, then we need to move this to a different tier.'
In fact as a general observation if I get an intractable problem that is hackily circumvented (don't deny you do this folks!) in the interest of other activity, I'll mentally make a note. If it nags irritatingly then next available moment I'll get stuck in. If I've thankfully forgotten about it, well, then I have forgotten about it.
January 10, 2012 at 6:41 am
Rich Weissler (1/9/2012)
In the vernacular of the younger generation "This [/url]is full of win!" Thank you Mr. Factor for putting it into words. (I can't count the number of times I've had to explain to folks that, "Yes, we've worked around the problem, but I still wanted to understand WHY it occurred in the first place."
+1
Very, very true. It doesn't matter that it's fixed - I want to know what happened, how it happened, and why, so I can ideally prevent it from occurring again. Or, at least, get my brain to stop trying to solve the puzzle!
-Ki
January 11, 2012 at 9:12 am
Problems, solutions, and research to those solutions have to be "time based". It would be nice to "research everything to death" until you figured out exactly what made it tick the way it did. But that is just not practical in the "real world". Unfortunately. we live in a world of deadlines. Therefore, you don't always have that luxury to break every problem right down to the "nuts and bolts" just to satisfy your inquiring mind. Many times there just isn't that kind of time available to invest. My past boss used to have a saying "Deliver the best solution for the time available, don't try to make a masterpiece out of it by figuring out everything." 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 11, 2012 at 9:55 am
TravisDBA (1/11/2012)
Problems, solutions, and research to those solutions have to be "time based". It would be nice to "research everything to death" until you figured out exactly what made it tick the way it did. But that is just not practical in the "real world". Unfortunately. we live in a world of deadlines. Therefore, you don't always have that luxury to break every problem right down to the "nuts and bolts" just to satisfy your inquiring mind. Many times there just isn't that kind of time available to invest. My past boss used to have a saying "Deliver the best solution for the time available, don't try to make a masterpiece out of it by figuring out everything." 😀
That is usually worded "The perfect is the enemy of the best."
January 11, 2012 at 10:22 am
TravisDBA (1/11/2012)
Problems, solutions, and research to those solutions have to be "time based". It would be nice to "research everything to death" until you figured out exactly what made it tick the way it did. But that is just not practical in the "real world". Unfortunately. we live in a world of deadlines. Therefore, you don't always have that luxury to break every problem right down to the "nuts and bolts" just to satisfy your inquiring mind. Many times there just isn't that kind of time available to invest. My past boss used to have a saying "Deliver the best solution for the time available, don't try to make a masterpiece out of it by figuring out everything." 😀
I agree that there's absolutely a line to draw between getting things done and understanding why something is happening the way it's happening. It's a balancing act that doesn't have any clear lines to it.
The counterpoint, however, is that sometimes it's not about the inquiring mind - it's about the difference between fixing the actual problem and putting bandaids on the issue. So sometimes, digging allows you to determine what's actually going on and address that, rather than creating layers of workarounds.
You absolutely have to know your business and where the right places are to draw the lines.
-Ki
January 11, 2012 at 10:38 am
So sometimes, digging allows you to determine what's actually going on and address that, rather than creating layers of workaround.:-D
I agree, but this has to be tempered with realistic time frames, costs, and resources in which to do the digging in the first place. Also, you have to weigh whether all that digging ends up being "fruitful" in the long run as well. I have seen co-workers and high paid consultants in the past research things to death and weeks later not really come up with any meaningful answers. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 11, 2012 at 10:44 am
TravisDBA (1/11/2012)
So sometimes, digging allows you to determine what's actually going on and address that, rather than creating layers of workaround.:-D
I agree, but this has to be tempered with realistic time frames, costs, and resources in which to do the digging in the first place. Also, you have to weigh whether all that digging ends up being "fruitful" in the long run as well. I have seen co-workers and high paid consultants in the past research things to death and weeks later not really come up with any meaningful answers. 😀
Completely agreed. And there's never a good way to tell up front when that time will have been productive and when it won't.
-Ki
January 11, 2012 at 11:20 am
And there's never a good way to tell up front when that time will have been productive and when it won't.
Sure there is. You put a realistic time frame on it.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 11, 2012 at 11:31 am
TravisDBA (1/11/2012)
And there's never a good way to tell up front when that time will have been productive and when it won't.
Sure there is. You put a realistic time frame on it.:-D
Reality, or at least its perception, tends to be different for each person. I would hedge my bets and say "educated" or "my personal best" timeframe.
January 11, 2012 at 11:40 am
To toss in an "It Depends"...
Travis, I agree with you and others that you have to keep the time to solution in perspective. I also have that occassional stubborn streak however. There's a balance though. Sometimes I'll take a problem home with me and work it in my own time, trying to get down to the nuts and bolts after slapping the band-aids on at work. Sometimes you do this at the office, like for Root Cause Analysis, trying to make sure the company doesn't eat another audit failure and cost it money.
A lot of times you realize you're just not going to be Paul White/Grant Fritchey in the next 3 weeks and you give up trying to find the perfect execution plan and go with 'Good Enough'.
It depends on how much of your attention its gotten, the importance to the business, and the importance to yourself. I've done 20 hours of work on a problem (unpaid) just because I thought it was important enough for me to understand it. I've also laughed at my bosses who thought I should be working from home on something non-critical. *shrugs* It's a matter of what catches your stubborn streak, and why.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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January 11, 2012 at 11:56 am
Evil Kraig F (1/11/2012)
To toss in an "It Depends"...Travis, I agree with you and others that you have to keep the time to solution in perspective. I also have that occassional stubborn streak however. There's a balance though. Sometimes I'll take a problem home with me and work it in my own time, trying to get down to the nuts and bolts after slapping the band-aids on at work. Sometimes you do this at the office, like for Root Cause Analysis, trying to make sure the company doesn't eat another audit failure and cost it money.
A lot of times you realize you're just not going to be Paul White/Grant Fritchey in the next 3 weeks and you give up trying to find the perfect execution plan and go with 'Good Enough'.
It depends on how much of your attention its gotten, the importance to the business, and the importance to yourself. I've done 20 hours of work on a problem (unpaid) just because I thought it was important enough for me to understand it. I've also laughed at my bosses who thought I should be working from home on something non-critical. *shrugs* It's a matter of what catches your stubborn streak, and why.
Well said. I wish I'd been able to capture this concept as well in my reply.
-Ki
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