Update Query and Joins in EM vs. Query Analyser

Dale, look in BOL on how to create new templates. However, right clicking on the table in the SQL2K object browser, selcting Script to New Window -> Insert will do the trick.

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 3

Yes, I have numerous templates created already. However, my point to this whole thread is that there are some things that are far more easily done in EM using QBE and eliminating the reference ambiguity I mentioned earlier. You've been a great help. Thanks again.

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 4

Personally, I think it's funny that everyone balks at using QBE in EM for query building. I found that in Access, my percentage of reference ambiguity using Grid Manager was zero. However, when I use QA and templates, it's probably 5 to 25% and then I have to make corrections. To me, it's like comparing BASIC to VISUAL BASIC. Visual tools are awesome! Why people think it's such an insult to use them is beyond me. Just my two cents.

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 5

quote:

You can stay, Frank. I just get queezy when I see the words "Upsizing Wizard".

Well, it was just your wording.

My wife use to say something very similar, before putting my head in the right place again. .

So, every time I hear this, it's high time to be sweet.

Now, getting serious again.

VisData comes along with Visual Studio. It's not really comparable to a true QB E editor, but the only one I know, although I'm pretty sure there are third-party tools out there, because there is definitely a demand for such products.

Don't get me wrong, I don't also like developing 'visual'.

Only the skeletal structure and then right into some editor. I like the feeling to be 100% in control of what I'm doing, and on the downside to be 100% responsible for mistakes I make.

Any visual tool takes away control from me.

...my 0.02 cents

P.S.:

You did a research paper on Moshe Zloof?

Cool, haven't tried myself, but did you manage to get hands on these articles?

M.M. Zloof. “Query by Example” Proc. NCC 44 (1975)

pages 431-438.

M.M. Zloof and S.P. de Jong. “The System for Business

Automation (SBA): Programming Language” CACM 20, 6

(June 1977) pages 385-396.

Last thing I found on him goes back into 1995. Is he still doing this Rendering by Example with HP Labs?

Cheers,

Frank

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 6

You made a good point about designing in the visual tool and then refining in QA. That's exactly what I'd like to do in EM only the capability is lacking for joins. That is the part that I can't figure out. Access is exceptional in this area. Same company, differing quality in product...

As for Zloof, here's the conclusion from my paper:

Dr. Zloof pioneered the research for visual user interfaces in data base languages in the 1970’s by developing QBE. QBE has been incorporated into many software products since then (i.e., Microsoft Access). Also, QBE has become the basis for all other research in the area of visual query languages. QBE and OBE has lead Dr. Zloof to research and develop IC-BY-EXAMPLE, “a new paradigm to enable non-programmer professional to construct their own applications”.

All the best,

Dale

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 7

quote:

You made a good point about designing in the visual tool and then refining in QA. That's exactly what I'd like to do in EM only the capability is lacking for joins. That is the part that I can't figure out. Access is exceptional in this area. Same company, differing quality in product...

inconsistencies in M$ products???

what a shame!

quote:

As for Zloof, here's the conclusion from my paper:

Dr. Zloof pioneered the research for visual user interfaces in data base languages in the 1970’s by developing QBE. QBE has been incorporated into many software products since then (i.e., Microsoft Access). Also, QBE has become the basis for all other research in the area of visual query languages. QBE and OBE has lead Dr. Zloof to research and develop IC-BY-EXAMPLE, “a new paradigm to enable non-programmer professional to construct their own applications”.

probably using it somewhere else, can I quote you?

Cheers,

Frank

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 8

Dale Corey

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Points: 9019

July 25, 2003 at 6:49 am

#467024

Yeah, you can quote me. Here's a good abstract and biography on Zloof:

http://www-db.stanford.edu/dbseminar/Archive/SpringY98/zloof-apr24.html

All the best,

Dale

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 9

Dale Corey

SSCrazy Eights

Points: 9019

July 25, 2003 at 6:58 am

#467026

Here's another good link on Visual Language Research Bibliography:

http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/~burnett/vpl.html

You'll find everything under the sun there on this topic.

All the best,

Dale

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 10

quote:

Here's another good link on Visual Language Research Bibliography:

http://eecs.oregonstate.edu/~burnett/vpl.html

You'll find everything under the sun there on this topic.

woohoo, Dale, feel kissed through cyberspace for this one!!!!

Cheers,

Frank

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 11

Dale Corey

SSCrazy Eights

Points: 9019

July 25, 2003 at 7:05 am

#467028

Frank,

You are just a sponge for this stuff. You are what we Americans call a "Cyber Geek". I'd hate to see what you desk looks like.

All the best,

Dale

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio

Frank Kalis SSC Guru Points: 111183 More actions · Answer 12

quote:

You are just a sponge for this stuff. You are what we Americans call a "Cyber Geek". I'd hate to see what you desk looks like.

No Mam !!!

I'm VERY accurate, exact in what I'm doing, arrive exactly im time, hate everything messy....

So, you would love to see my desk. Hardly any paper on it. Nice arranged in clipboards and folders.

But I'm a kind of binary guy.

Once I got interested in something, I want to know everything about it.

Topics I'm not interested in, I don't care about!

That is also true for setting priorities in work, so there is a kind of natural conflict with my boss. Especially when it comes to stupig number crunching like today

Hopefully during next week I'll send Andy Warren my picture. Wait for it, and feel free to judge on it

Cheers,

Frank

--
Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]

Dale Corey SSCrazy Eights Points: 9019 More actions · Answer 13

Dale Corey

SSCrazy Eights

Points: 9019

July 25, 2003 at 7:18 am

#467033

quote:

That is also true for setting priorities in work, so there is a kind of natural conflict with my boss. Especially when it comes to stupig number crunching like today.

I hear you! I'm in the same boat!

All the best,

Dale

All the best,

Dale

Author: An Introduction to SQL Server 2005 Management Studio