July 2, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Here's a real life example of what I'm talking about. I gave a 2 hour session at my local Pass chapter. The first hour was an intro to the Tally table and Pseudo Cursors. About 50 people attended. I asked for a show of hands of people who had "ever heard of a Numbers or Tally table". One out of those 50 raised their hand and he admitted to never using one. At the end of the night, I had about 30 people tell me I should patent the idea of a Tally table. Of course I told them it was actually pretty old technology but it shows just how ignorant of the SQL "Black Arts" a lot of folks are. Ya can't learn this stuff if you don't even know about it.
--Jeff Moden
July 2, 2010 at 3:30 pm
Hey Grant! What day is your local Pass meeting on in July? I'm going to be in lil' Rhody from the 11th to the 17th and I'd love to attend (present, if you want). And whether you have a meeting during that time frame or not, we really need to get together for some 12 oz curls!
--Jeff Moden
July 2, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Jeff Moden (7/2/2010)
Here's a real life example of what I'm talking about. I gave a 2 hour session at my local Pass chapter. The first hour was an intro to the Tally table and Pseudo Cursors. About 50 people attended. I asked for a show of hands of people who had "ever heard of a Numbers or Tally table". One out of those 50 raised their hand and he admitted to never using one. At the end of the night, I had about 30 people tell me I should patent the idea of a Tally table. Of course I told them it was actually pretty old technology but it shows just how ignorant of the SQL "Black Arts" a lot of folks are. Ya can't learn this stuff if you don't even know about it.
Sounds like you need to go on the road. Also submit to the Summit. There is a development track, I didn't get to see any abstracts from it because I was on the DBA selection team, and the Tally/Numbers thing would be good there. The problem is that most people that are involved with PASS DO know about it, but we don't know about the NEW stuff like Extended Events, etc..., and we are submitting and picking the sessions.
Another good example is that there was not one submission on simple Backup and Restore strategies in the DBA track even though it is one of the biggest problems based on forums.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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July 2, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I agree with you Jeff. We could only pick from what was submitted, but some of the feedback that I've given is that we ought to be able to review this and then suggest some other sessions to speakers. That gets weird since you want people to present something they've taught and know, but I still think I could go to one of the SSIS or Powershell guys, or someone like you or Itzik, and ask for a slightly different session.
We do need more "developer to developer" type sessions that really dive deep into code.
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July 2, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Jeff Moden (7/2/2010)
Here's a real life example of what I'm talking about. I gave a 2 hour session at my local Pass chapter. The first hour was ....
Agreed , most of the UG sessions i attend are based on the new "sexy" stuff. Not that they are not interesting but to my mind its not the "bread and butter". Im planning a session for SqlBits around the same sort of topics, going to start though with the Phil Factor Fifo query to show how it IS possible to go from 40minutes to 3seconds. Hopefully should be getting the cursored routine benchmarked on SSD's (although i suspect most of it is in RAM anyway) just to show you cant throw hardware at a problem.
July 2, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Jeff Moden (7/2/2010)
Hey Grant! What day is your local Pass meeting on in July? I'm going to be in lil' Rhody from the 11th to the 17th and I'd love to attend (present, if you want). And whether you have a meeting during that time frame or not, we really need to get together for some 12 oz curls!
We're the 14th. I'll make sure I can stay for the curls this time. We already have someone presenting, although I forget who at the moment. It'll be great to see you again. Wish you'd been here last month. I had to present again because of a last-minute cancellation and the fact that none of my co-conspirators likes presenting.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
July 2, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Steve, I will be submitting an abstract for a pre-con at the Spring PASS event.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
July 3, 2010 at 4:11 am
SqlBits is also doing a precon this time around, feel free to submit 🙂
July 3, 2010 at 5:02 am
I've never done anything longer than a half-day training session. I'd be very nervous submitting for a full-day precon.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 3, 2010 at 8:25 am
GilaMonster (7/3/2010)
I've never done anything longer than a half-day training session. I'd be very nervous submitting for a full-day precon.
I've done multi-day training sessions... with secretary's & other non-technical people. I am flat out nervous about a full-day with people who might actually know something. Still, opportunity for growth.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
July 3, 2010 at 9:30 am
Jack Corbett (7/2/2010)
Sounds like you need to go on the road. Also submit to the Summit. There is a development track, I didn't get to see any abstracts from it because I was on the DBA selection team, and the Tally/Numbers thing would be good there. The problem is that most people that are involved with PASS DO know about it, but we don't know about the NEW stuff like Extended Events, etc..., and we are submitting and picking the sessions.Another good example is that there was not one submission on simple Backup and Restore strategies in the DBA track even though it is one of the biggest problems based on forums.
Actually, I did submit 2 abstracts for the Summit; One on the Tally Table and one on a different way to think about hierarchies. Of course, the one on hierarchies uses the Tally Table along the way, as well.
I agree... there's always a lot of talk about all the new wizz-bang stuff coming out or that has recently come out. Just not enough hard core stuff for everyday DBA's and Developers. As you say, hard core training on things like backups and restores and avoiding cursors, etc, seems to be missing from the program anymore.
--Jeff Moden
July 3, 2010 at 9:32 am
Steve Jones - Editor (7/2/2010)
I agree with you Jeff. We could only pick from what was submitted, but some of the feedback that I've given is that we ought to be able to review this and then suggest some other sessions to speakers. That gets weird since you want people to present something they've taught and know, but I still think I could go to one of the SSIS or Powershell guys, or someone like you or Itzik, and ask for a slightly different session.We do need more "developer to developer" type sessions that really dive deep into code.
I have to ask again, though. You good folks seemed to be talking about something else other than PASS. Are you talking about something else or are you talking about PASS?
--Jeff Moden
July 3, 2010 at 9:37 am
Grant Fritchey (7/2/2010)
Jeff Moden (7/2/2010)
Hey Grant! What day is your local Pass meeting on in July? I'm going to be in lil' Rhody from the 11th to the 17th and I'd love to attend (present, if you want). And whether you have a meeting during that time frame or not, we really need to get together for some 12 oz curls!We're the 14th. I'll make sure I can stay for the curls this time. We already have someone presenting, although I forget who at the moment. It'll be great to see you again. Wish you'd been here last month. I had to present again because of a last-minute cancellation and the fact that none of my co-conspirators likes presenting.
I'll make sure I'm there. Expect an email from me. Thanks, Grant.
--Jeff Moden
July 3, 2010 at 9:58 am
Jeff Moden (7/3/2010)
Jack Corbett (7/2/2010)
Sounds like you need to go on the road. Also submit to the Summit. There is a development track, I didn't get to see any abstracts from it because I was on the DBA selection team, and the Tally/Numbers thing would be good there. The problem is that most people that are involved with PASS DO know about it, but we don't know about the NEW stuff like Extended Events, etc..., and we are submitting and picking the sessions.Another good example is that there was not one submission on simple Backup and Restore strategies in the DBA track even though it is one of the biggest problems based on forums.
Actually, I did submit 2 abstracts for the Summit; One on the Tally Table and one on a different way to think about hierarchies. Of course, the one on hierarchies uses the Tally Table along the way, as well.
I agree... there's always a lot of talk about all the new wizz-bang stuff coming out or that has recently come out. Just not enough hard core stuff for everyday DBA's and Developers. As you say, hard core training on things like backups and restores and avoiding cursors, etc, seems to be missing from the program anymore.
Cool! They must be in the developer track because I didn't see them in the DBA track. I'm sure one of them will be selected. Looking forward to meeting you in person finally.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
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July 3, 2010 at 10:16 am
Jeff Moden (7/3/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (7/2/2010)
I agree with you Jeff. We could only pick from what was submitted, but some of the feedback that I've given is that we ought to be able to review this and then suggest some other sessions to speakers. That gets weird since you want people to present something they've taught and know, but I still think I could go to one of the SSIS or Powershell guys, or someone like you or Itzik, and ask for a slightly different session.We do need more "developer to developer" type sessions that really dive deep into code.
I have to ask again, though. You good folks seemed to be talking about something else other than PASS. Are you talking about something else or are you talking about PASS?
PASS Summit pre and post cons (full day events)
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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