June 12, 2009 at 6:20 am
What do you all know about nHibernate? Seems like it has a problem executing SPs. They are good for CRUD I guess.
Isnt Subsonic better than nHibernate? Subsonic does support stored proc execution better than nHibernate or other ORM tools. The developers here wants to use nHibernate and I am a bit vary of that idea...
-Roy
June 12, 2009 at 6:35 am
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
I am a bit vary of that idea...
Personally, I'd be a bit "wary"...;-) What's that old saying? "Don't vary, be happy"
-- You can't be late until you show up.
June 12, 2009 at 7:18 am
oops.... Sorry... vary and wary... I need a good spell checker that can read my mind and point out the mistakes I am making when typing...:hehe:
-Roy
June 12, 2009 at 7:40 am
Grant Fritchey (6/12/2009)
RBarryYoung (6/12/2009)
Good catch Bruce. I had suspect some sleight of hand from either the OP or the Client code, but I missed the codegen reference.Does anyone know of any client-code DB tools that change their queries into sp_executesql calls? Does Linq-to-SQL or Linq-to-Entities do that?
I know nHibernate does exactly that.
Thanks, Grant. I was wonderng that very thing...
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June 12, 2009 at 8:19 am
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
What do you all know about nHibernate? Seems like it has a problem executing SPs. They are good for CRUD I guess.Isnt Subsonic better than nHibernate? Subsonic does support stored proc execution better than nHibernate or other ORM tools. The developers here wants to use nHibernate and I am a bit vary of that idea...
We've got a rather major project that is using it. Based on my research into it, if it's used correctly, it's a pretty amazing tool. Unfortunately, my group has chosen to use it incorrectly. If you use the tool as designed, a object to relation mapper, it's cool. It's when you decide that hey, who needs all that relational headache. We can use this as an object to object mapper, eliminate the DBA' (who we hate) and everything will be PERFECT... except for that horrible performance and a complete inability to generate reports or share data with other applications.
Anyway, the worst thing I've found about nHibernate is that it generates variables based on the length of the data supplied, not on the length of the data stored. So if you have a varchar(50) column and receive the string 'dog' you'll get a varchar(3) but if the next call is 'rabbit' you get a varchar(6). That means compiling & storing a new execution plan... You can envision the problems that start to arise from there. Not to mention that, it won't always get a good data conversion, you might get implicit conversions in the tsql, which means, even if there's a useful index (unlikely since DBA's weren't involved in the project) it won't be used by the query.
Other than that, I love ORM tools.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
June 12, 2009 at 8:35 am
There's some nHibernate in use here in the admin tools. When it became problematic to add columns to a page (related table) or change the queries for particular pages, I wasn't sure if I wanted to punch the developer in the UK or the architect of nHibernate at MS.
It's entirely possible that my developers have mis-used it, as Grant's have, but it has caused me some frustration here. I might suggest you pilot a few small things with a developer, then ask for changes, Go through what might be reasonable alterations of the app and see if they still like nHibernate. I don't care what tool they use, but that tool cannot then get in the client's way.
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June 12, 2009 at 8:53 am
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
oops.... Sorry... vary and wary...
My apologies to you, just yanking your chain. It's Friday and I'm feeling fine!
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
I need a good spell checker that can read my mind and point out the mistakes ...:hehe:
Simply get married! :w00t:
-- You can't be late until you show up.
June 12, 2009 at 9:23 am
tosscrosby (6/12/2009)
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
oops.... Sorry... vary and wary...My apologies to you, just yanking your chain. It's Friday and I'm feeling fine!
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
I need a good spell checker that can read my mind and point out the mistakes ...:hehe:Simply get married! :w00t:
I am married... She points out my mistakes when I am home... :hehe:
Grant, Steve Thanks for the input. The Parameter size that is passed through with variable size, that is a very scary thought.
Steve/Grant, they did some basic tests and they all find it good since they dont have to write SQL Code. Question, if they are using Select statements directly from the app using nHibernate, how do you manage to secure your DB? I have a bad feeling about giving select permission on tables to the App user.
-Roy
June 12, 2009 at 10:32 am
Roy Ernest (6/12/2009)
I am married... She points out my mistakes when I am home... :hehe:Grant, Steve Thanks for the input. The Parameter size that is passed through with variable size, that is a very scary thought.
Steve/Grant, they did some basic tests and they all find it good since they dont have to write SQL Code. Question, if they are using Select statements directly from the app using nHibernate, how do you manage to secure your DB? I have a bad feeling about giving select permission on tables to the App user.
Oh yeah, and security stinks too. You more or less are completely reliant on the app & the developers for just about everything. We get to run backups for them.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
June 12, 2009 at 10:43 am
No idea on security here, but we have one login for the web app, in a role, basic db security.
There are roles in the db tables, so I assume they are joining to verify security, but it's possible they just validate on log in and then show menus based on that.
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June 12, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I just saw the PASS session list. Congrats Gail and Grant!!!
--Jeff Moden
June 13, 2009 at 10:03 am
Congrats Grant and Gail as well!
I'm an alternate, fine by me. Jeff, any word for you?
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June 13, 2009 at 10:17 am
Thanks. 😀
I'm presenting two sessions this year, one spotlight and one general (with my 3rd submission marked 'alternate'). I've got one confirmed full session at TechEd Africa as well, plus possibly one or two Chalk and Talk sessions. Looks like it's going to be a very busy few months.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 13, 2009 at 11:03 am
GilaMonster (6/13/2009)
Thanks. 😀I'm presenting two sessions this year, one spotlight and one general (with my 3rd submission marked 'alternate'). I've got one confirmed full session at TechEd Africa as well, plus possibly one or two Chalk and Talk sessions. Looks like it's going to be a very busy few months.
Wow. Congratulations to you Gail, and all the other.
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June 13, 2009 at 11:49 am
GilaMonster (6/13/2009)
Thanks. 😀I'm presenting two sessions this year, one spotlight and one general (with my 3rd submission marked 'alternate'). I've got one confirmed full session at TechEd Africa as well, plus possibly one or two Chalk and Talk sessions. Looks like it's going to be a very busy few months.
Congratulations Gail and Grant!
Edit: Shame on me, missed Grant...
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