March 23, 2010 at 2:30 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/22/2010)
Visions of Itchy and Scratchy just ran through my head.
ROTFL! :hehe::hehe::hehe:
Jason, I don't want to be unrespectful, but, looking at the quite high number of wedding anniversaries most threadizens have, I don't think they all know Itchy and Scratchy! 😛
-- Gianluca Sartori
March 23, 2010 at 4:23 am
Oi! do you mind - 24 years this year and I know Itchy and Scratchy
That what happens when you other half puts too much starch in your underpants 😀
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
March 23, 2010 at 5:55 am
tstaker (3/22/2010)
This was my experience as well as a manager of DBA's interviewing new candidates. I've avoided the certifications for years because of nightmare interviews with people who were certified...
I just remembered - the candidates with certifications were often very weak technically too. Odd, but true.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
March 23, 2010 at 6:11 am
Paul White NZ (3/23/2010)
I just remembered - the candidates with certifications were often very weak technically too. Odd, but true.
Not odd, ive always thought the exams are based around , can you remember obscure syntax for obscure functionality used once in a blue moon. There isnt much practical use required or needed to pass the exams. A guy i know used to work in IT recruitment and had an armful of MS exam passes, but zero knowledge of how to apply that to the real world.
March 23, 2010 at 6:25 am
Dave Ballantyne (3/23/2010)
Not odd, ive always thought the exams are based around , can you remember obscure syntax for obscure functionality used once in a blue moon.
They're not. The 1st generation cert exams were, to a point, like that. The latest ones aren't.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 23, 2010 at 7:18 am
I like the timing of Steve editorial. It fits right in with our discussion. 🙂
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
March 23, 2010 at 7:36 am
GilaMonster (3/23/2010)
Dave Ballantyne (3/23/2010)
Not odd, ive always thought the exams are based around , can you remember obscure syntax for obscure functionality used once in a blue moon.They're not. The 1st generation cert exams were, to a point, like that. The latest ones aren't.
I'd have to agree with Gail. Back in 2003, when I got MCDBA/MCSA/MCSE certified, all you had to do was remember stuff. And like Dave mentioned, a bit of it was obscure stuff.
In 2008, when I got SQL 2005 certified, the test were very much different. There is now a "hands-on" simulation, which requires you to perform the steps to accomplish a given task. While there is still a bit of answers that can be memorized, you can't pass the test by that alone... you have to be able to pass the simulation section also. And if I remember correctly (which probably means that I'm wrong :-D), you have to pass each section of the test, as well as achieve a minimum score overall to pass the certification.
I feel that the certification is useful in a small handful of scenarios:
1. Person with no experience with sql server... this helps show that they are wanting to move into this area, and are investing in themselves to do so. Nothing more.
2. Person with sql server experience... this helps them to round out their sql education.
That being said, employers are still impressed by having certifications. For that reason, I feel that all the denizons of the thread would benefit from being certified... that coupled with their experience should float their resumes to the top of the pile.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 23, 2010 at 7:50 am
WayneS (3/23/2010)
That being said, employers are still impressed by having certifications. For that reason, I feel that all the denizons of the thread would benefit from being certified... that coupled with their experience should float their resumes to the top of the pile.
The other thing that it does is introduce you to areas of the product that you may not have worked with, because they never came up. It's good to know what's there, even if you don't know much about some areas at least you know they exist.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 23, 2010 at 8:03 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/22/2010)
I also believe the same could easily be said about people with College Degrees. There is a person in our finance dept that got a degree in CS. Was promoted to IT manager because of that and didn't have a clue about IT. He still doesn't know what a DBA is.
In MY experience, those people that go to college from high school, get a degree in an IT field (even a masters!), and then join the work force have been the absolute worse programmers / DBAs that I've seen.
Those folks that were working in the field, then went and earned their degree, are a completely different story. Those folks have been (again, in my experience) some of the most top-notch IT personnel that I've run into.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 23, 2010 at 8:06 am
GilaMonster (3/23/2010)
WayneS (3/23/2010)
That being said, employers are still impressed by having certifications. For that reason, I feel that all the denizons of the thread would benefit from being certified... that coupled with their experience should float their resumes to the top of the pile.The other thing that it does is introduce you to areas of the product that you may not have worked with, because they never came up. It's good to know what's there, even if you don't know much about some areas at least you know they exist.
Gail, you elaborated very well what I meant with I said:
2. Person with sql server experience... this helps them to round out their sql education.
Thank you for writing what I was thinking!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 23, 2010 at 8:11 am
WayneS (3/23/2010)
In MY experience, those people that go to college from high school, get a degree in an IT field (even a masters!), and then join the work force have been the absolute worse programmers / DBAs that I've seen.
Ow...
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 23, 2010 at 8:13 am
Dave Ballantyne (3/23/2010)
Paul White NZ (3/23/2010)
I just remembered - the candidates with certifications were often very weak technically too. Odd, but true.
Not odd, ive always thought the exams are based around , can you remember obscure syntax for obscure functionality used once in a blue moon. There isnt much practical use required or needed to pass the exams. A guy i know used to work in IT recruitment and had an armful of MS exam passes, but zero knowledge of how to apply that to the real world.
Sounds very familiar. 🙂
To respond to the other points raised:
I daresay the exams are better these days, and I would never say that all candidates with an exam pass are always awful, just that it has been my experience that such people are less likely to be suitable, not more. I am not talking about interviews from five or ten years ago either. It is just a sad fact that whenever I see a string of certifications, I mentally prepare myself to be disappointed.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
March 23, 2010 at 8:16 am
WayneS (3/23/2010)
In MY experience, those people that go to college from high school, get a degree in an IT field (even a masters!), and then join the work force have been the absolute worse programmers / DBAs that I've seen.
Quite so. It is a well-known and absolutely incontrovertible univeral fact that the very best programmers/database developers/consultants-occasionally-available-for-a-very-reasonable-fee... all hold a third-class honours degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering 😉 :w00t:
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
March 23, 2010 at 8:34 am
GilaMonster (3/23/2010)
WayneS (3/23/2010)
That being said, employers are still impressed by having certifications. For that reason, I feel that all the denizons of the thread would benefit from being certified... that coupled with their experience should float their resumes to the top of the pile.The other thing that it does is introduce you to areas of the product that you may not have worked with, because they never came up. It's good to know what's there, even if you don't know much about some areas at least you know they exist.
This is the reason I took the certification tests. I, and I think others, tend to only learn about the things I know I need to do my job when I need it. Unfortunately this often means I 'm leaving out options that I just don't know about that will do the job better. Thus taking the tests, going to user groups, etc...
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
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March 23, 2010 at 8:35 am
Gianluca Sartori (3/23/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/22/2010)
Visions of Itchy and Scratchy just ran through my head.ROTFL! :hehe::hehe::hehe:
Jason, I don't want to be unrespectful, but, looking at the quite high number of wedding anniversaries most threadizens have, I don't think they all know Itchy and Scratchy! 😛
We are married not Dead!
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
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