March 31, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/29/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/29/2010)
All I want is please leave the doors open to all [font="Arial Black"]with the ability[/font].Exactly... 🙂
Thanks Jeff I am off this thread to think how a people who did not pass the original Transact-SQL exam is qualified to create an exam that I may not qualify run by Microsoft.
This takes us back to what Jeff has said about certs like the MCTS and MCITP not being reflective of one abilities or lack there of.
I am INSULTED that you would dare judge my knowledge and abilities by the simple lack of the MCITP cert.
Whicj takes us back to the point of this editorial and discussion. There is a need for a cert like the MCJ that would provide validation of ones knowledge and abilities.
Heh... careful ol' friend. I try not to admit to being insulted by anyone because... that may have been their goal to begin with and I don't like to help people reach that goal. 🙂
Bring back the "saint". 😉
Sometimes even a saint needs to pull out the rod and knock a few heads.
I tried dealing with this individual long enough and this last comment simply crossed a line with me and required a response. I know it won't mean a thing to her, but I will stand by my post.
I had been so hopeful that we had made progress. It appears that all that matters is to stir the pot.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 6:00 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
I think it's supposed to be that code is potable and people just misunderstood.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
March 31, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
I think it's supposed to be that code is potable and people just misunderstood.
Then we have two mis-spellings.
It should be Coke is Potable. 😀
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/29/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/29/2010)
All I want is please leave the doors open to all [font="Arial Black"]with the ability[/font].Exactly... 🙂
Thanks Jeff I am off this thread to think how a people who did not pass the original Transact-SQL exam is qualified to create an exam that I may not qualify run by Microsoft.
This takes us back to what Jeff has said about certs like the MCTS and MCITP not being reflective of one abilities or lack there of.
I am INSULTED that you would dare judge my knowledge and abilities by the simple lack of the MCITP cert.
Whicj takes us back to the point of this editorial and discussion. There is a need for a cert like the MCJ that would provide validation of ones knowledge and abilities.
Heh... careful ol' friend. I try not to admit to being insulted by anyone because... that may have been their goal to begin with and I don't like to help people reach that goal. 🙂
Bring back the "saint". 😉
Sometimes even a saint needs to pull out the rod and knock a few heads.
I tried dealing with this individual long enough and this last comment simply crossed a line with me and required a response. I know it won't mean a thing to her, but I will stand by my post.
I thought about tis a bit more, and I still stand by earlier post. I could have wored it differently, however, by saying her comment was insulting in that she would judge ANYONE's knowledge and abilities based on whether they had or didn't have an MCITP certification.
That would have been a bit more saintly, imho.
March 31, 2010 at 7:55 pm
I thought about tis a bit more, and I still stand by earlier post. I could have wored it differently, however, by saying her comment was insulting in that she would judge ANYONE's knowledge and abilities based on whether they had or didn't have an MCITP certification.
That would have been a bit more saintly, imho.
I came to SQL Server Central from Houston PASS, I stayed at SQL Server Central but I stopped attending PASS meetings five years ago. I may attend their meetings again but I will not take a practical exam created and run by PASS if my life depends on it. The past conference Jeff was not invited so the invitations are not for skills. I have worked for people who wanted me to drop 200 tables in a healthcare application.
SQL Server is a crystal house, .NET is a glass house all I am saying education is the Lighthouse of the 21rst century please the lights on.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 31, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
I thought about tis a bit more, and I still stand by earlier post. I could have wored it differently, however, by saying her comment was insulting in that she would judge ANYONE's knowledge and abilities based on whether they had or didn't have an MCITP certification.
That would have been a bit more saintly, imho.
I came to SQL Server Central from Houston PASS, I stayed at SQL Server Central but I stopped attending PASS meeting a five years ago. I may attend their meetings again but I will not take practical exam created and run by PASS if my life depends on it. The past conference Jeff was not invited so the invitations are not for skills. I have worked for people who wanted me to drop 200 tables in a healthcare application.
SQL Server is a crystal house, .NET is a glass house all I am saying education is the Lighthouse of the 21rst century please the lights on.
And unfortunately, you still make absolutely no sense, and have no idea that you have insulted a broad majority of people nor does it seem that even care.
So say good night Grace.
March 31, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
I thought about tis a bit more, and I still stand by earlier post. I could have wored it differently, however, by saying her comment was insulting in that she would judge ANYONE's knowledge and abilities based on whether they had or didn't have an MCITP certification.That would have been a bit more saintly, imho.
No problem... I don't usually turn a cheek for anyone so I'm not actually qualified to talk about that area of life. I just hate to see a friend get worked up. "A man (or woman) forced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 9:00 pm
GSquared (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Often, and not just in IT areas. "How dare you challenge my competence? I've been doing this job for 30 years!" is a pretty standard statement in just about any business I've seen. My response is inevitably, "You've been doing it wrong for 30 years and you haven't figured that out yet? What's wrong with you?" Though I have to admit, that response has been under my breath a few times.
BWAA-HAAA!!! I've used that same line word for word (bright and outload) on a couple of people that desparately deserved it (ring-knockers to the max and your description perfectly describes a "ring-knocker".). It doesn't always work on them but the people standing around have been known to applaud, bright and outload.
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
I came to SQL Server Central from Houston PASS, I stayed at SQL Server Central but I stopped attending PASS meetings five years ago. I may attend their meetings again but I will not take a practical exam created and run by PASS if my life depends on it. The past conference Jeff was not invited so the invitations are not for skills. I have worked for people who wanted me to drop 200 tables in a healthcare application.SQL Server is a crystal house, .NET is a glass house all I am saying education is the Lighthouse of the 21rst century please the lights on.
Hi Gift,
Thank you for the very nice compliment but I have to make one correction there. I actually was invited to PASS especially these last two years. I just haven't been able to go because of some crazy job commitments. I intend to give a standup or two at PASS this year (heh... provided I get approval again) and maybe even have the chance to sit at the QnA table so I can lend a helping hand (or maybe just a friendly one) to folks that may need it... heh... whether they're certified or not :-P.
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
I came to SQL Server Central from Houston PASS, I stayed at SQL Server Central but I stopped attending PASS meetings five years ago. I may attend their meetings again but I will not take a practical exam created and run by PASS if my life depends on it. The past conference Jeff was not invited so the invitations are not for skills. I have worked for people who wanted me to drop 200 tables in a healthcare application.SQL Server is a crystal house, .NET is a glass house all I am saying education is the Lighthouse of the 21rst century please the lights on.
Hi Gift,
Thank you for the very nice compliment but I have to make one correction there. I actually was invited to PASS especially these last two years. I just haven't been able to go because of some crazy job commitments. I intend to give a standup or two at PASS this year (heh... provided I get approval again) and maybe even have the chance to sit at the QnA table so I can lend a helping hand (or maybe just a friendly one) to folks that may need it... heh... whether they're certified or not :-P.
Heh... and not to worry... part of my goal is to help keep the lights on. 😉
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
SQL Server is a crystal house, .NET is a glass house all I am saying education is the Lighthouse of the 21rst century please the lights on.
Interesting analogy. So if I understand this correctly, those that develop in .Net live in Glass houses. Education is a light for all. And the SQL professionals that live in Crystal houses magnify that light significantly.
Let's all stop casting stones and start working together in the lighthouse.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Heh... and not to worry... part of my goal is to help keep the lights on. 😉
Thanks. Now every time I read a post by you, I will hear the voice of the Motel 6 dude.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Heh... and not to worry... part of my goal is to help keep the lights on.
Thanks Microsoft made someone else MVP that was more important to me than mine renewed. She is smarter than most of their .NET stars and no we don't write the same language. I am happy Microsoft may not want me monitoring crocodiles breeding grounds and leopard head count in Canonical running MySQL or Oracle.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
March 31, 2010 at 9:36 pm
GilaMonster (3/31/2010)
WayneS (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster')Makes me wonder what he thinks the difference is between a table scan and a clustered index scan...
That's an evil question to ask.... So many ways to get it wrong.
Thank you, thank you very much. :crazy: (I wish there was an animated emoticon for bowing...)
Ah yes, so many ways to get it wrong... and only one way to get it right.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 31, 2010 at 10:21 pm
Gift Peddie (3/31/2010)
Heh... and not to worry... part of my goal is to help keep the lights on.
Thanks Microsoft made someone else MVP that was more important to me than mine renewed. She is smarter than most of their .NET stars and no we don't write the same language. I am happy Microsoft may not want me monitoring crocodiles breeding grounds and leopard head count in Canonical running MySQL or Oracle.
And once again we head down the rabbit hole to Wonderland. Sorry, but what you wrote above is simply gibberish.
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