March 31, 2010 at 1:16 pm
I could see, admitting a weakness here, that I may want to study a bit on replication and log-shipping, and taking the time to do that in order to pass the MCITP would be worthwhile as it would expose me more to areas I currently don't use. But I have read and studied these in the past, even setting up repliaction in a test environment to get some hands on experience. Just never implemented it in a production environment. If you don't use, you tend to lose it (some what).
In an interview that may ask questions in those areas, i would make sure that the interviewer knew I haven't had any direct experience but have an understanding of the technologies and so that I could easily learn them and support them without too much difficulty.
March 31, 2010 at 1:26 pm
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Maybe I've been spoiled by the likes of folks like the denizens of SSC but it sure does seem to me that the SQL Server IQ even on the most basic of things, certified or not, started out low and has been seriously going down hill.I can't argue that. I can't even say that might be your opinion. Ok I can, but it is similar to my opinion too.
The Oracle DBAs i know atleast think that is due to proliferation of 'loose information' on the product. It does not take much intelligence or effort to google an error message and come up with tons of information on how to fix it. Not a bad thing, but again makes eveyrthing quick fix and easy for anyone to do without learning why or how. The amount of information available like that for Oracle is much lesser atleast according to what they say so people have to put in effort to learn it.
Heh... one of the previous companies I worked for went through some Oracle DBA hiring. Even though I'm not well studied in Oracle, I was invited in to ask questions. After a bunch of the interviews, I was told they were hiring the person I recommended they don't hire. Later that week, he allowed a user to talk him into removing the primary key from a many-to-many join table because it was (and I quote) "too difficult to make the app determine if a new row was unique or not". That was my first experience with a full blown SPOM. :Whistling:
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 1:27 pm
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.
Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
----------------------------------------------------The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood... Theodore RooseveltThe Scary DBAAuthor of: SQL Server 2017 Query Performance Tuning, 5th Edition and SQL Server Execution Plans, 3rd EditionProduct Evangelist for Red Gate Software
March 31, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
--Jeff Moden
March 31, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Maybe I've been spoiled by the likes of folks like the denizens of SSC but it sure does seem to me that the SQL Server IQ even on the most basic of things, certified or not, started out low and has been seriously going down hill.I can't argue that. I can't even say that might be your opinion. Ok I can, but it is similar to my opinion too.
The Oracle DBAs i know atleast think that is due to proliferation of 'loose information' on the product. It does not take much intelligence or effort to google an error message and come up with tons of information on how to fix it. Not a bad thing, but again makes eveyrthing quick fix and easy for anyone to do without learning why or how. The amount of information available like that for Oracle is much lesser atleast according to what they say so people have to put in effort to learn it.
Heh... one of the previous companies I worked for went through some Oracle DBA hiring. Even though I'm not well studied in Oracle, I was invited in to ask questions. After a bunch of the interviews, I was told they were hiring the person I recommended they don't hire. Later that week, he allowed a user to talk him into removing the primary key from a many-to-many join table because it was (and I quote) "too difficult to make the app determine if a new row was unique or not". That was my first experience with a full blown SPOM. :Whistling:
Removing the primary key makes it easier to determine if a new row is unique???? 😛
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
March 31, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Another thing i personally watch out for...is strong cynicism/frequent jokes on the quality of software. More than usual the person is hiding his lack of sufficient knowledge under that..so yeah 'which microsoft product is bug free' or yeah 'it is a clustering thing and you know how many bugs that has' and so on, turn red lights on. It is very unfortunate though how many such individuals have jobs and escape accountability by blaming the software or company behind it.
March 31, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
We would only need one DBMS if everything was written to ANSI/ISO generic standards. There would be no need for Oracle, SQL Server, InterBase, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Informix, <name your database>.
March 31, 2010 at 1:38 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
Sure, you can move it from system to system using FTP, or file copy, or via a USB drive, or a CD or DVD. 😛
March 31, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
We would only need one DBMS if everything was written to ANSI/ISO generic standards. There would be no need for Oracle, SQL Server, InterBase, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Informix, <name your database>.
And Access would still not be a suitable database for Enterprise data!!
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
March 31, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
Sure, you can move it from system to system using FTP, or file copy, or via a USB drive, or a CD or DVD. 😛
I prefer 12 inch floppies or punch cards.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 31, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Alvin Ramard (3/31/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
We would only need one DBMS if everything was written to ANSI/ISO generic standards. There would be no need for Oracle, SQL Server, InterBase, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Informix, <name your database>.
And Access would still not be a suitable database for Enterprise data!!
Was it ever?? 😛
March 31, 2010 at 1:42 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Lynn Pettis (3/31/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/31/2010)
Jeff Moden (3/31/2010)
Grant Fritchey (3/31/2010)
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
Well said. And 100 percent in agreement. Want to share one expereince - One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster') - he didn't have certs on him but a few years experience so I asked how he didn't know something more, (same exact words) - he responded rather strongly that 'he knew enough to keep the job'- had to be escorted out since he sounded threatening. 'Yeah if you wanna be a geek okay but i only learn enough to keep the job'....For someone from another culture it was quite a threatening experience and scary..was just wondering if anyone has heard or experienced similar.Oh yeah, but luckily all the belligerent people I've run into have been during phone interviews. The best one was the guy who said, after getting really basic information wrong, like the difference between a clustered index and a nonclustered index, that we were "Asking questions that were too Microsoft specific." And then he went on a screed about how we clearly didn't know what we were doing because we were building databases on SQL Server and taking advantage of SQL Server behaviors rather than building the databases in the most generic possible fashion so that the could be ported to any other platform on a moment's notice. Oh, and by the way, he was certified and had 10 years experience....
The reason I'd like to see a certification that clearly demands more than the existing certs (MCM absolutely excepted) is because of jerks like that.
Heh... sounds like many of the ANSI/ISO zealots we've run into on these very forums. Everyone who thinks writing truly portable code isn't a myth especially in a batch environment, please raise your hand... then leave. 😛
Code is portable?
Sure, you can move it from system to system using FTP, or file copy, or via a USB drive, or a CD or DVD. 😛
I prefer 12 inch floppies or punch cards.
Can you say "floor sort"? 😛
March 31, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Okay, I think this one is getting way off topic, if we aren't careful we could have the grandson of the thread soon.
March 31, 2010 at 2:17 pm
dma-669038 (3/31/2010)
One guy i talked to did not know the difference between table scan and index seek except that 'it ran faster')
Makes me wonder what he thinks the difference is between a table scan and a clustered index scan...
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
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